Aquaponics Digest - Tue 08/07/01
Message 1: Re: Pacu vs Bluegill
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 2: Re: cherry tomato varieties
from kris book
Message 3: Re: Trop. Storm Barry
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 4: Aquaponics/hydroponics for seed production?
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 5: Allelopathy / companion plants for herbs
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 6: Re: cherry tomato varieties
from Teresa Blackwood
Message 7: sustainable energy
from Ray Schneider
Message 8: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Problem
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 9: Re: Trop. Storm Barry
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 10: Re: cherry tomato varieties
from "Jay Myers"
Message 11: Re: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Problem
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 12: Re: cherry tomato varieties
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 13: grape tomatoes
from "Jay Myers"
Message 14: Tropical tomatoes
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 15: Jay, you survived Tropical Berry!
from "TGTX"
Message 16: Re: cherry tomato varieties
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 17: Used oil heaters
from "Jay Myers"
Message 18: Re: cherry tomato varieties
from "Jay Myers"
Message 19: Re: Trop. Storm Barry
from "Dorothy Mann"
Message 20: New York tilapia supplier?
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 21: FW: Maggot production technique
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 22: RE: Pacu vs Bluegill
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 23: Re: cherry tomato varieties
from "Dorothy Mann"
Message 24: reality check
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 25: Re: Aquaponics/hydroponics for seed production?
from Jenny Reed
Message 26: About seeds
from Andrei Calciu
Message 27: RE: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Problem
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 28: RE: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Problem
from Andrei Calciu
Message 29: RE: Tropical tomatoes
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 30: Fwd.[IBS-GEN] integrated aquaculture - Malawi
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 31: rose cuttings
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 32: RE: Aquaponics/hydroponics for seed production?
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 33: Re: Fish data needed
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 34: RE: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 35: Re: reality check
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 36: Re: Fish data needed
from "Arlos"
Message 37: RE: reality check
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 38: Re: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
from kris book
Message 39: RE: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
from "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Message 40: Re: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
from "bennett"
Message 41: Re: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
from "bennett"
Message 42: Re: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
from "bennett"
Message 43: Re: reality check
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 44: Anybody tried Johnny's Compact Genovese Basil?
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 45: Re: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 46: Maggot production
from "Robert Rogers"
Message 47: Re: reality check
from "Arlos"
Message 48: Re: sustainable energy check
from kris book
Message 49: Re: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
from kris book
Message 50: Report on farmer's market
from "Hiromi Iwashige"
Message 51: Re: Live with chickens in this greenhouse
from kris book
Message 52: Propagation of Plants - useful information in the propagation of food plants
from kris book
. .
| Message 1
Subject: Re: Pacu vs Bluegill
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 01:24:22 -0500
Hi Chris,
I'm going to jump in here if you don't mind.
Re: Your driving 200 miles to get your bluegills.
I just got off the phone with Mark in Indiana because I was interested in
picking up some hybrid bluegills in Indiana vs. driving to Ga on a sidetrip
after the NC conference. Mark says that he pays 33c to 37c apiece for 3-5 "
fingerlings. Now, these are from a basically "unproven" supplier
.does he
have any records, etc. to his name
.I doubt it. You can buy F-1 hybrids
from Ken's fish farm and they only cost +/- 33c apiece and that includes
shipping. Ken has many records and has the world's record for the largest
bluegill.
Re: your problem with the state of Utah. Apply for an import permit and only
state "BLUEGILLS" on the application. That is what they are. I applied for a
permit and called them "Georgia Giants" and was declined. I reapplied and
called them "bluegills" and was approved. THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE!
Hope this tidbit helps.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Jeppesen"
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 2:03 PM
Subject: RE: Pacu vs Bluegill
Bruce
If my cost is under $200 It's doable. I would have to harvest some at
smaller sizer to avoid over population in my system. I am really entriqued
by these big boys.
My problem with blue gills is I have to drive 200 miles to a source approved
by the state of Utah. and they are just blue gills not a hybrids.
> (Bruce Schreiber)Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001
13:44:57 -0500 (CDT)
> aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com RE: Pacu vs BluegillReply-To:
aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>
>Cris if you or anyone else wants Pacu I think that we can get them drop
>shipped Fed Exed, UPS, to your door let me find out. How many do you
>want they are cheaper in lots of 100.
> Buy the way you keep pacu in your system growing up to a older larger
>size the older they get the faster they grow the bigger they get 2-5 lb.
>fillets per fish is easy with this fish but not in the first year of
>growth and if you have the system for it they will keep growing to their
>adult size of about 30lb.plus
> Bruce
. .
| Message 2
Subject: Re: cherry tomato varieties
From: kris book
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 01:17:42 -0600
Mark,
I've dealt with the folks at Hydro-Gardens for a few years. They've got
everything for hydroponics and they won't try to sell you anything that's
not proven.
k
On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 23:27:17 -0500 "Mark Allen Wells"
writes:
> back to plants
>
> I was wondering what cherry tomato varieties do
> well in hydroponics. I don't have lots of experience
> here yet and so far have only tried Sweet 100's.
> I prefer the lower acid types
.any suggestions?
>
> thanks,
> mark
>
. .
| Message 3
Subject: Re: Trop. Storm Barry
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 03:08:53 -0500
Jay, I'm glad you've weathered the storm
.but did you have to send
the rain to Birmingham?
Adriana
> Just to let you know the aquaponic / hydroponic greenhouse at
Panama City
> Beach, Fl. still stands, but is a bit underwater. The fish tank has
floated
> up, but lettuce lake and the other crops are pretty much in tact.
. .
| Message 4
Subject: Aquaponics/hydroponics for seed production?
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 03:41:16 -0500
Taking Emmett's sage advice - I'd like to start a new thread, taking
great care to steer away from politics, religion and women(men, I
assume are OK to discuss? :>)).
Has anybody done any investigation into the commercial production of
vegetable or herb seeds using a hydroponic or aquaponic production
facility? Every time I order seeds I am amazed at the cost, with some
lettuces and basil (notably Purple Ruffles) at >$100/#. The high
price of Purple Ruffles Basil at $338/# compared to Genovese which
runs $22/# is attributed to low yields.
Is it possible that the higher planting densities of
hydroponics/aquaponics and the optimal nutrients provided the plants
would provide higher yields and better quality seeds vs. field grown
plants? We KNOW that we can grow healthier plants in a shorter time.
I would assume this would translate into healthier seeds and better
plants in the second generation.
>From a business perspective it may or may not make sense. Perhaps the
long "harvest time" required for seed production is not a good use of
greenhouse space compared to the revenue potential from other crops.
I know there are some very exacting requirements to prevent cross
pollination of similar species. I expect that there is a significant
labor component involved in the separation of the seeds from the
plant material and some very specific handling requirements regarding
temperature and humidity.
Just a thought, does anybody know anything on this subject?
Adriana
. .
| Message 5
Subject: Allelopathy / companion plants for herbs
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 04:20:43 -0500
A while back we discussed the subject of companion plants and which
plant species are detrimental to growth. The following site from Penn
State University has excellent descriptions of 52 herbs and their
cultivation requirements. A specific section of the guide addresses
companion planting issues for each variety.
http://hortweb.cas.psu.edu/vegcrops/herbs.html
. .
| Message 6
Subject: Re: cherry tomato varieties
From: Teresa Blackwood
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 21:59:05 -0700
And does anyone know a the correct name or type for "grape tomatos" (very
small, really sweet, cherry tomatos)? My mother has been trying to find
them and cant figure out what they are. Would they do good w/a greenhouse
system?
Thanx,
Teresa
---- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
To: "Aquaponics"
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 9:27 PM
Subject: cherry tomato varieties
> back to plants
>
> I was wondering what cherry tomato varieties do
> well in hydroponics. I don't have lots of experience
> here yet and so far have only tried Sweet 100's.
> I prefer the lower acid types
.any suggestions?
>
> thanks,
> mark
. .
| Message 7
Subject: sustainable energy
From: Ray Schneider
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 07:17:17 -0400
Mark Wells offered -- "Wind, solar and hydrogen technologies do not
leave you with a waste that must be contained in underground mines
forever."
I think the issue is sustainable energy. Energy is at the bottom of any
supply tree, sort of the ultimate empowering agent. We would like our
energy to be completely non-polluting. One problem with all forms of
energy is the availability and efficiency -- solar energy is about a KW
per square yard if you could convert it with 100% efficiency which you
can't -- not even close and the real problem is that it only works when
the sun shines -- so you need a storage mechanism. Wind is quite a bit
worse -- the wind blows a lot less than the sun shines in most places.
No one mentioned tidal energy, but again it is highly localized. Then
there is ground thermal. Most of the rest use expendibles and release
some kind of thing we don't particularly want -- coal, oil, natural gas,
and nuclear. The nuclear waste issue might be considered a
"interpretation issue" -- since there are probably uses that so-called
nuclear waste could be put to if people had not demonized the materials
so much in the past. Hazardous materials are just that, "hazardous" --
they are not magic or demonic. Nuclear materials provide a great deal
of benefit to man.
Now the winner for low pollution has to be hydrogen. There is one small
catch -- there is no source of free hydrogen. It has to be made from
separating water from it's oxygen -- that involves energy regardless of
how it is done. Freeing the hydrogen from the water molecule takes
energy and releases oxygen into the atmosphere. I read somewhere that
there were some biological agents that would break down water and
release hydrogen -- but these agents would have to be fed.
If I were king then I'd invest heavily in nuclear plants and R and D for
1) using nuclear waste in a beneficial manner, and 2) trying to discover
a hydrogen cycle that was efficient and completely sustainable. If we
could find efficient ways to 1) convert solar to power, and 2) store the
power over night and periods of cloudiness etc. -- then that would also
be a good research investment. A lot of money was spent on these kinds
of things back in the mid to late 1970s -- the results were not all that
terrific.
There it is in a nutshell I think. You have to have power even if it is
just muscle power sustained by the food you eat and the waste you
excrete.
Cheers, Ray
--
Ray Schneider
On the Search for the PERFECT tomato.
Come See Me at:
http://www.user.shentel.net/rschneid
. .
| Message 8
Subject: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Problem
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 19:21:10 +0800
Hi All,
Wondered if anybody has had any luck growing tomatoes in a
Tropical Climate. Been running my trial nodes for about 3 months now.
Everything comes up that I put in except the tomatoes !
( Cucumbers, beans, Lettuces, onions all imported seeds from the west, all
okay.) All the local vegetables absolutely thrive in the growbeds.
For Tomatoes, I have tried about six different varieties, from Cherrys to
Giant tomatoes. I have only had one spindly looking plant come through at
the moment.
I am guessing its either the High Temps, or High Humidity that they dont
like.
Anybody know of specific varietys for the Tropics ?
Welcome any feedback on this
Thanks
Steve H
. .
| Message 9
Subject: Re: Trop. Storm Barry
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 07:05:11 -0500
At 08:16 PM 08/06/2001 -0500, Jay wrote:
>Just to let you know the aquaponic / hydroponic greenhouse at Panama City
>Beach, Fl. still stands, but is a bit underwater. The fish tank has floated
>up, but lettuce lake and the other crops are pretty much in tact.
Jay - glad to hear you've survived, at least partially. And Emmett posted
yesterday as well. All of you "in the path" folks be careful, ya hear?
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
. .
| Message 10
Subject: Re: cherry tomato varieties
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 07:09:53 -0500
If you don't mind runaway vines, try the grape tomatoes. They have great
taste and just keep growing.
Jay
> I was wondering what cherry tomato varieties do
> well in hydroponics> thanks,
> mark
. .
| Message 11
Subject: Re: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Problem
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 07:13:32 -0500
At 07:21 PM 08/07/2001 +0800, Steve Hurst wrote:
>Hi All,
> Wondered if anybody has had any luck growing tomatoes in a
>Tropical Climate. Been running my trial nodes for about 3 months now.
>Everything comes up that I put in except the tomatoes !
>( Cucumbers, beans, Lettuces, onions all imported seeds from the west, all
>okay.) All the local vegetables absolutely thrive in the growbeds.
>
>For Tomatoes, I have tried about six different varieties, from Cherrys to
>Giant tomatoes. I have only had one spindly looking plant come through at
>the moment.
Steve - From your post, I'd guess that you are germinating in the grow
beds
.generally there's no problem with that with tomatoes or any other
crop. We usually start tomatoes and peppers in flats outside the system to
use the growbed space while the plants are growing to "transplant size", but
we have started them in the gravel as well.
In order to eliminate the possibility of high temps/high humidity, you might
try starting some seeds in flats. You didn't say what your temperatures
were running. Other possibilities might be that they were started too deep,
did not have sufficient moisture during germination (slim), or that they
were planted too shallow in a flooded bed and washed into the drain (?).
More info posted on your method might help.
As for varieties, I'll be interested to see what our members in more
tropical areas post as well.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
. .
| Message 12
Subject: Re: cherry tomato varieties
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 07:15:54 -0500
At 09:59 PM 08/06/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>And does anyone know a the correct name or type for "grape tomatos" (very
>small, really sweet, cherry tomatos)? My mother has been trying to find
>them and cant figure out what they are. Would they do good w/a greenhouse
>system?
>Thanx,
>Teresa
Teresa - they are generally in the category referred to as "currant"
tomatoes. We have grown some, but the plants are very hard to grow in a
controlled manner. They tend to branch more often than you can imagine!!
We generally have left the growing of those plants to our outdoor space
because of this --- but it's amazing to have the flavor of a full-sized
tomato in such a tiny fruit.
Paula
. .
| Message 13
Subject: grape tomatoes
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 07:19:06 -0500
We get our seeds from Johnnys seeds. They grow great in the g/h in hydro,
same as other toms.
Jay
> And does anyone know a the correct name or type for "grape tomatos" (very
> small, really sweet, cherry tomatos)? My mother has been trying to find
> them and cant figure out what they are. Would they do good w/a greenhouse
> system?
. .
| Message 14
Subject: Tropical tomatoes
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 07:16:45 -0500
Hi Steve,
ECHO (Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization) says the following
about heat-tolerant tomato varieties:
"higher heat tolerance varieties: Solar Set (hybrid determinate),
Tropic (indeterminate), Super Beefsteak (indeterminate) ,Homestead 24
(determinate)
higher heat tolerance cherry varieties: Matlinka, Saladette"
If you are not familiar with ECHO you will find it to be a great
resurce for your part of the world. Their web site is at
www.echonet.org and the serach engine is accessible from this page.
Their web page on Resources for Tropical Agriculture is at
http://www.echonet.org/tropicalag/resources.trop.htm
and their book From Amaranth to Zai Holes is an incredible reference
for many, many crops. You can order it through their web site or read
the on-line version of it.
You can also order seeds from them.
Adriana
> Wondered if anybody has had any luck growing tomatoes in a
> Tropical Climate. Been running my trial nodes for about 3 months
now.
> Everything comes up that I put in except the tomatoes !
. .
| Message 15
Subject: Jay, you survived Tropical Berry!
From: "TGTX"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 07:19:37 -0500
Jay,
Thanks for the report. I was wondering how the Florida panhandle is
fairing.
It is great to know all is still tied down and the pumps are ginnin' at your
place.
Best of Luck to you, Amigo.
Ted
. .
| Message 16
Subject: Re: cherry tomato varieties
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 07:31:04 -0500
The commercial varieties are called Juliette and Santa (one is the
offspring of the other). I heard somebody this past weekend say that
they could not get any seed from the seed houses for them this year.
If you just want some for home use you can try saving some seed from
supermarket grape tomatoes. I had good luck with this a couple of
years ago, but it is possible, if the plants were grown in proximity
to another tomato variety that you will wind up with an odd cross. I
took a chance and got decent grape tomatoes.
> Teresa - they are generally in the category referred to as "currant"
> tomatoes. We have grown some, but the plants are very hard to grow
in a
> controlled manner. They tend to branch more often than you can
imagine!!
> We generally have left the growing of those plants to our outdoor
space
> because of this --- but it's amazing to have the flavor of a
full-sized
> tomato in such a tiny fruit.
Speaking of cherry tomatoes - I went to the SE Greenhouse Growers
convention last month in SC and was surprised to see the makers of
ornamental plastic hanging grow bags include cherry tomatoes in the
literature for their bags. I would not have expected the bags to be
large enough to successfully grow cherry tomatoes. If you hang the
bags high, this would allow you to let the vines grow DOWN instead of
up, eliminating some of the pruning and stringing chores. (one grower
I know is doing this with full-size tomatoes, right Jay :>)?) **For
novices - BE SURE you have an adequate greenhouse structure if you
plan to grow tomatoes or cucumbers. The weight of the crop and vines
has been known to collapse greenhouses.
Adriana
. .
| Message 17
Subject: Used oil heaters
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 07:57:51 -0500
Mike -
>From Farm Show Mag.
Waste Oil Stoves, Furnaces.
Clean Burn Inc. 800 331-0643
Black Gold Corp. 800 351-0643
Lanair 800 753-1601 www.lanairusa.com
Reznor Inc. www.tnb.com
Shenandoah Mfg. Co. Inc. 800 476-7436 www.shenmfg.com
Harold Electric Co. 800 541-8910
They also have a web-site - I've seen this one work at a Boise Farm Show in
November outside. It burned clean and put out a huge amount of heat. They
sell a kit so you can make out of 2 55 gal drums for about $1600. Used oil
gives 140,000 BTU's/ gallon.
Jay
Panama City Beach, Fl.
. .
| Message 18
Subject: Re: cherry tomato varieties
From: "Jay Myers"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:04:10 -0500
"If you hang the
bags high, this would allow you to let the vines grow DOWN instead of
up, eliminating some of the pruning and stringing chores. (one grower
I know is doing this with full-size tomatoes, right Jay :>)?) "
This works great for the grapes. This is our 2nd year for these, and we go
into the "jungle" to pick. We only have about 12 plants, and pick 6 pounds
every other day.
Jay
. .
| Message 19
Subject: Re: Trop. Storm Barry
From: "Dorothy Mann"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:18:19 -0500
Jay
You can send some of that water to North Texas. The ground is cracking here.
Becky Hines
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Myers"
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 8:16 PM
Subject: Trop. Storm Barry
> Just to let you know the aquaponic / hydroponic greenhouse at Panama City
> Beach, Fl. still stands, but is a bit underwater. The fish tank has
floated
> up, but lettuce lake and the other crops are pretty much in tact.
>
> Did I mention Nuclear power?
> Jay
>
>
. .
| Message 20
Subject: New York tilapia supplier?
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 08:33:02 -0500
Anyone in the group have a source for 100 fingerling quantities in the New
York area for a pilot system?
Paula
. .
| Message 21
Subject: FW: Maggot production technique
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:33:23 -0500
Hi Gang,
I just received this reply from Songhai Centre. I love it
when I write a place so far away like that and they write back.
The pics show nothing elaborate but I would happy to forward them
to anyone who wants them. This combined with the earlier link
I posted gives a lot of info
.definitely makes me look at maggots
differently. I hope it helps anyone interested.
mark
-
Dear Mark,
Thanks for the message dated on the 4th of August 2001 you sent us. I
would have reply if I were not on tour on our other sites inside the
country. I am happy to notice that our work is useful for people
elsewhere.
In fact, here at Songhai we have developped a particular maggot
production technic since 1987. You will find, attached to the next mail
two (2) images of our maggotery. I hope that they will help you to
understand the arrangment of the differents tanks inside it. The
collecting thanks is effectively parallel to the substrate tanks. They
have the same depth.
There is no connection between the substrate and the collecting tanks.
Maggots migrate simply from the substrate to the collecting tank. Here
is the process.
When the maggots have the right size to be harvest,
1- we water the substrate and than a few seconds later they migrate to
the surface of the substrate
2- we place some fresh brewery waste and fresh pigs or chicken manure at
the corner nearest the migration terminus
3- about 30 minutes later, maggots are attract to the substrate
4- scoop the maggots with a hand spade into the collecting tank where
the remaining brewery waste is remove with a broom
5- harvest and clean maggots into a rubber or plastic bucket.
There is no risk to feed directely fish with maggots freshly harvest
from the maggotery. Here, we are feeding fishes with fresh and no clean
maggots for long time. We have not detected any bacteria infection on
our fish (tilapia, catfish and carpe).
So, with our experience, I can say that there is no risk or no potential
problem by feeding fishes with maggots.
Our fishes are the sweetest and the biggest of Benin Republic. They have
the best growth rate and have a particular taste. The daily gain is
about 1.05 - 1.3 grammes and the mortality rate 0.2 to 2 %. I need to
precise that we feed our fish exclusively with maggots. Maggots
composition depend on the nature of the substrates and the nature of the
manure. The composition is also variable is you use them dry or not dry
(wet).
Songhai had produce during the year 2000, 19.3 tonnes of maggots and
sold 3 tonnes of fish and 48,000 of fingerlings.
I hope that those informations will be useful for you.
Thanking you,
Yours sincerely,
Samuel AKO
Head of Crops and Animal Production Department
PS. The 2 images and maggots composition will be sent you soon.
Thank.
. .
| Message 22
Subject: RE: Pacu vs Bluegill
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:41:46 -0500
>Now, these are from a basically "unproven" supplier
.does he
have any records, etc. to his name
.I doubt it
I can't say that they are the same as Ken's fish, but I wouldn't
exactly call them unproven either. He has supplied millions of them
to ponds in Indiana over the last decade. They are F-1 hybrids.
What remains to be proven I think is a how hybrids perform in an
aquaculture/aquaponics environment. They will most definitely
sell well if they can be produced efficiently.
I would be interested in knowing the growth rates that Ken has had
with them.
enjoyed the conversation, Steve
take it easy,
mark
. .
| Message 23
Subject: Re: cherry tomato varieties
From: "Dorothy Mann"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:01:26 -0500
Teresa
I got some "grape tomato" seed from Nichol's Garden Nursery (
www.nicholsgardennursery.com) but lost them to damp off. Some of the other
seed worked very well though
Becky Hines
----- Original Message -----
From: "Teresa Blackwood"
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: cherry tomato varieties
> And does anyone know a the correct name or type for "grape tomatos" (very
> small, really sweet, cherry tomatos)? My mother has been trying to find
> them and cant figure out what they are. Would they do good w/a greenhouse
> system?
> Thanx,
> Teresa
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Allen Wells"
> To: "Aquaponics"
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 9:27 PM
> Subject: cherry tomato varieties
>
>
> > back to plants
> >
> > I was wondering what cherry tomato varieties do
> > well in hydroponics. I don't have lots of experience
> > here yet and so far have only tried Sweet 100's.
> > I prefer the lower acid types
.any suggestions?
> >
> > thanks,
> > mark
>
. .
| Message 24
Subject: reality check
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 08:51:02 -0500
hey Ray
.Brent,
Just wanted to let you know I didn't mind the reality
check
.LOL> Like I said, my passion gets the better
of me sometimes. I honestly believe though, that there
are potential technologies out there that could put
nuclear energy in the dark ages but the research is
held back for the reasons Colonel Bearden mentioned. Time
and history will tell if nukes were a great thing or
a horrible mistake
.I honestly hope that you and Ray
are right and I am wrong.
peace,
mark
. .
| Message 25
Subject: Re: Aquaponics/hydroponics for seed production?
From: Jenny Reed
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:01:27 -0400 (EDT)
> Is it possible that the higher planting densities of
> hydroponics/aquaponics and the optimal nutrients provided the plants
> would provide higher yields and better quality seeds vs. field grown
> plants? We KNOW that we can grow healthier plants in a shorter time.
> I would assume this would translate into healthier seeds and better
> plants in the second generation.
>
> >From a business perspective it may or may not make sense. Perhaps the
> long "harvest time" required for seed production is not a good use of
> greenhouse space compared to the revenue potential from other crops.
> I know there are some very exacting requirements to prevent cross
> pollination of similar species. I expect that there is a significant
> labor component involved in the separation of the seeds from the
> plant material and some very specific handling requirements regarding
> temperature and humidity.
>
> Just a thought, does anybody know anything on this subject?
>
Well, I don't actually know anything about this subject, but it's one I've
been thinking about, too. I see no good reason whatsoever to keep buying
seeds when you can produce your own (even if you don't actually sell seed).
The first thing you have to do, if you want seeds, is to start with pure
crops. The proper term is "open-pollinated". The hybrids are right out.
This is because a hybrid crossed with another hybrid will produce a wide
range of things
the next generation is unpredictable. Meanwhile, in
both plants and animals, a purebred or open-pollinated variety crossed with
another of its kind will produce more of its kind.
The simple solution is to pick one open-pollinated variety per greenhouse and
grow that exclusively. That doesn't mean you need to grow only tomatoes in
that greenhouse - you can grow one variety of tomato, one variety of lettuce,
one variety of carrot, etc. If you do this, you will be virtually guaranteed
pure stock in the seeds, because a greenhouse is a closed environment, and
it would be quite a stretch for MY imagination that a tomato in another
greenhouse would somehow pollinate across greenhouses. Of course, if you
use bees, and allow them access to multiple greenhouses, then that's a bit
different
. but probably not that likely even so; the bee is likely to
return to the hive before hitting a different greenhouse. Not that I'm an
expert on bees, either.
The trick at this point is, how do you prepare the seeds? There are books on
this subject, and I haven't read any of them yet.
Keep smiling :)
. .
| Message 26
Subject: About seeds
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:02:33 -0400
The reason most of us have to buy seeds every year is the supply chain.
Most of the seeds available come from some type of hybridized plant.
Hybrids self destruct over several crop cycles. Some last as much as 10
crop cycles, but are rare. If you use seeds from your hybrid, productivity
drops and plants degenerate with each successive crop. Kinda like the
Egyptian Pharaohs who married their sisters to keep the blood line pure,
had to inject new, foreign blood in the line every once in a while to avoid
monsters generated by in-breeding.
Anyway, a hybrid seed needs to be produced anew rather than harvested from
a hybrid plant. This is partially by design to keep the hybrid producers in
business and making money.
The solution is to find pure stock plants (probably an organic supplier, or
a big agri supply house). Then segregate those plants from those of similar
kind (i.e., do not grow several varieties of the plant, just use one type
of corn, tomato, cucumber, etc per growing cycle). This way you avoid
tainting your stock (i.e., creating your own unplanned hybrid).
Hope this helps.
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
. .
| Message 27
Subject: RE: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Problem
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 22:15:32 +0800
Thanks Paula,
Thats given me something to go for. I will try as you suggest
and get the plants going outside the grow bed first.
Did not really have much idea as to depth. Seed instructions on
packets bore no relation to what I was attempting to do to their seeds !
For the beans and sweet ( bell ) peppers, I tried sticking the seeds
1 inch down, and just putting them on the surface. Both methods worked.
The Tomatoes are really the only plants I am having problems with.
Currently its Rainy Season here, Air Temps are around 31 C, to 34 C.
Humidity has been drifting from 82% to 93%.
I am having to use shade cloth, when it stops raining.
I am still searching the web for info on Tomatoes for Tropical Climate.
Will post any info I find out.
In the meantime will try as you suggested,
Thanks
Steve H
SNIP
Steve - From your post, I'd guess that you are germinating in the grow
beds
.generally there's no problem with that with tomatoes or any other
crop. We usually start tomatoes and peppers in flats outside the system to
use the growbed space while the plants are growing to "transplant size", but
we have started them in the gravel as well.
In order to eliminate the possibility of high temps/high humidity, you might
try starting some seeds in flats. You didn't say what your temperatures
were running. Other possibilities might be that they were started too deep,
did not have sufficient moisture during germination (slim), or that they
were planted too shallow in a flooded bed and washed into the drain (?).
More info posted on your method might help.
As for varieties, I'll be interested to see what our members in more
tropical areas post as well.
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
. .
| Message 28
Subject: RE: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Problem
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:27:12 -0400
Tropical Steve,
Have you considered the possibility of using some kind of system to
de-humidify your greenhouse? It may be just a wild idea, but seeing that
the interior is a "controlled environment" maybe there is some method of
drawing humidity away from the greenhouse. Nutty idea, I know.
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
. .
| Message 29
Subject: RE: Tropical tomatoes
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 23:41:51 +0800
Hi Adriana,
Thats a great Link. Lots of Info here, looks like several
days of reading! Even has an On-Line store to order up seeds
and books, and they appear to ship Worldwide.
Lots of things to try here
Thanks Adriana,
Steve H
SNIP
Hi Steve,
ECHO (Educational Concerns for Hunger Organization) says the following
about heat-tolerant tomato varieties:
"higher heat tolerance varieties: Solar Set (hybrid determinate),
Tropic (indeterminate), Super Beefsteak (indeterminate) ,Homestead 24
(determinate)
higher heat tolerance cherry varieties: Matlinka, Saladette"
If you are not familiar with ECHO you will find it to be a great
resurce for your part of the world. Their web site is at
www.echonet.org and the serach engine is accessible from this page.
Their web page on Resources for Tropical Agriculture is at
http://www.echonet.org/tropicalag/resources.trop.htm
and their book From Amaranth to Zai Holes is an incredible reference
for many, many crops. You can order it through their web site or read
the on-line version of it.
You can also order seeds from them.
Adriana
> Wondered if anybody has had any luck growing tomatoes in a
> Tropical Climate. Been running my trial nodes for about 3 months
now.
> Everything comes up that I put in except the tomatoes !
. .
| Message 30
Subject: Fwd.[IBS-GEN] integrated aquaculture - Malawi
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 10:48:05 -0500
Forwarded for your information -- address any questions directly to
R.Brummett 'at' cgiar.org
>Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 07:16:04 +0200
>Sender: "IBSnet: General Forum on Integrated Bio-Systems"
>
>From: Jacky Foo
>Subject: [IBS-GEN] integrated aquaculture - Malawi
>To: ET-W1 'at' SEGATE.SUNET.SE
>
>Farmer-Scientist Research Partnerships for Integrated Aquaculture
>Source: http://www.un.org/esa/sustdev/success/SARD-6.htm
>
>Location: Malawi
>
>Organisation:
>International Centre for Living Aquatic Resources Management (ICLARM)
>
>Description:
>A realistic alternative to traditional technology development has been utilised
>by ICLARM to integrate pond fish culture into low-input farming systems in
>Malawi. Resource flow charts and informal interviews were used to assess farm
>resources and constraints and introduce the concept of integrated resource
>management (IRM), which refers to the synergistic movement of resources between
>and among farm and household enterprises. Farmer-led IRM research projects are
>conducted on-farm and monitored by researchers through direct observation and
>on-station simulation of constraints and management practices involving 225
>smallholdings in Southern Malawi (average holding size 1,6 hectares).
>
>For the success of this initiative, certain needs were identified and
addressed:
> Both extension and research were frustrated by a lack of progress.
> Government was interested in increasing fish supply.
> Farmers made increasingly desperate by structural adjustment policies were
>seeking ways to diversity their production systems.
>
>The initial objective of this initiative was to overcome local constraints to
>integrated aquaculture through the use of locally developed technology. Low
>adoption rates encouraged investigation into technology transfer
mechanisms, and
>eventually, to a unified approach to technology development and transfer (which
>included farmer's participation as well as the fusion of extension and research
>capabilities).
>
>Issues Addressed:
>Sustainable aquaculture, sustainable agriculture, capacity building.
>
>Results Achieved:
>Overhauled approach to the development and dissemination of integrated
>aquaculture technology, and a core group of farmers with a better understanding
>of how integrated systems (and especially pond Aquaculture systems) function.
>
>Involved 65-100 percent of farmers in various pilot activities adopted
IRM-based
>fish culture and expanded their ponds continuously over three years despite
>drought conditions that dramatically lowered pond productivity.
>
>Improved productivity, stability and income generative capacity of
>smallholdings.
>
>Improved methods for technology development and transfer.
>
>Integration of Aquaculture into a farming system improves overall farm function
>and crop diversity.
>
>Lessons Learned
>The approach has been adopted as the Malawian national strategy for the
>development of smallholder aquaculture. Important elements for success are a
>farmer-participatory approach to technology development and transfer and
>government support for a modified research-extension-farmer relationship.
>
>The development phase took +/- 7 years; trials and implementation took
another 4
>years.
>Incremental, farmer-participatory approaches that are adaptive to local
>socio-economic conditions work better than transfer of complete technology
>modules.
>
>Contacts
>Randall E. Brummett
>International Center for Living Aquatic Resources Management (ICLARM)
>P.O. Box 2416,
>Cairo, Egypt
>Tel. (+20 55) 401027/400498;
>Email: R.Brummett 'at' cgiar.org
>
. .
| Message 31
Subject: rose cuttings
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:58:42 -0500
Hi gang,
I'm really enjoying a day of plant threads
.LOL.
Is anyone starting rose cuttings hydroponically or
aquaponically? I have read many are started that way.
I am not a hybrid tea kind of guy but love the own
root rugosas such Hansa, Rosa Rugosa Rubra, etc. Their
rose hips are natures richest source of vitamin C. They
grow great without chemicals
.only one problem
the japanese beatles love their flowers as much as I do.
Now if I could just get my bluegill to eat the beatles I
would have something.
Mark
. .
| Message 32
Subject: RE: Aquaponics/hydroponics for seed production?
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 11:16:56 -0500
Stabilized hybrids such as (from what I read) the Sweet
100 cherry tomato, have been developed enough that their
seeds are consistant with the parents. Heirloom varieties
would also be good
.but hybids, as mentioned would not
do for seed production. To consistantly reproduce say a great
hydrid tomato that I want to keep, I clone it using the
suckers as cuttings. Want to see a cool low-tech tomato
cloner?.http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/District/9046/hydro/cloner.htm
just a thought,
mark
. .
| Message 33
Subject: Re: Fish data needed
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 11:31:12 -0500
At 10:13 AM 08/05/2001 -0700, Arlos wrote:
>Ok kids,
>
> I'm trying to present a paper on current production of farmed fish using
both marine and fresh water species in the US based on region. If any of
you could share your production rates, prior, current and projected. Include
species including exotics (eel, mussel, fresh water shrimp,etc
.), water
quality controls and waste stream management, size of operation and location
and markets. Farmed, caged and ranched numbers also needed. Yes I could get
numbers from Sea Grant and University studies but I'm trying to get numbers
directly from producers which vary from the above studies. The study is
based on reports of the depleted/ diminished stock of ocean species and
creation of new markets based on public awareness in market choice of wild
caught verses farmed. Studies through the Monterey Bay Aquarium showed that
within 20 years, 80% of all seafood (marine and fresh water sources) would
come from farming. I'm looking at data to support this. Your help would be
greatly appreciated
>
>Arlos
Did you receive the necessary responses or URLs where this information is
available?
Paula
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
. .
| Message 34
Subject: RE: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 00:54:36 +0800
Not so Nutty an idea Andrei !!
I did think about having ONE section of a greenhouse that was
de-humidified.
But, it all comes down to economics really. My current tropical "Greenhouse"
Is just a see through roof to keep the rain off, on a steel frame, with fine
mesh net for the walls, to control the insects. Compared to what the guys
in colder climates have to spend on keeping their buildings warm, I beleive
I am getting off pretty cheap !
I have found lots of things that will grow in my Beds, complete with that
Humidity and heat.
But,
Sometimes I just have this hankering for those vegetables that I was brought
up
on, coming from a more Northern Climate.
It looks like that link that Adriana gave me gives me access to a lot of
those
vegetables that I am looking for, developed for a Tropical climate.
It looks like I get to keep my cheapo Greenhouse !
If I DID manage to set up an air-con Greenhouse, I would probably have to
change
my Tilapia for Trout !
Steve H
SNIP
Have you considered the possibility of using some kind of system to
de-humidify your greenhouse? It may be just a wild idea, but seeing that
the interior is a "controlled environment" maybe there is some method of
drawing humidity away from the greenhouse. Nutty idea, I know.
. .
| Message 35
Subject: Re: reality check
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:04:54 -0700
Many things are just around the corner and things like fuel cells are nearly
commercially viable. But today we must deal with what works. Our power co-op
in south eastern AZ was told to start practicing rolling blackouts so our
power could be diverted to a state whose short sited tree hugging
politicians stopped all power plant construction years ago! We were duped 15
years ago into tearing down our stand by natural gas generating plant hear
in town. We joined the co-op in the next valley and were told we "the
owners" would get power first then the "excess" would go into the grid. Now
we learn that a politician can simply make a phone call and divert our power
with out warning. I do not think we should weight for what is around the
corner and let the politicians, power brokers, and tree huggers run our
lives. When you live in an area where inside temperature can go to 140 F in
22 minutes or less without power you loose your sense of hummer about
sharing your own power. California's problem did not get created when Bush
got sworn in last January. It is not mine nor Bushes problem but it looks
like Bush and I must now fix it. Oh did you all hear about our fire fighters
who got burned alive because they were denied water for 10+ hours. The
politicians and tree huggers spent the time debating whether the endangered
snails in the lake would be offended
if a little bit of their water was used to save some lives. Go figure?
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
To: "Aquaponics"
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 6:51 AM
Subject: reality check
> hey Ray
.Brent,
>
> Just wanted to let you know I didn't mind the reality
> check
.LOL> Like I said, my passion gets the better
> of me sometimes. I honestly believe though, that there
> are potential technologies out there that could put
> nuclear energy in the dark ages but the research is
> held back for the reasons Colonel Bearden mentioned. Time
> and history will tell if nukes were a great thing or
> a horrible mistake
.I honestly hope that you and Ray
> are right and I am wrong.
>
> peace,
> mark
>
. .
| Message 36
Subject: Re: Fish data needed
From: "Arlos"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:32:11 -0700
Paula,
Zero response from the group so far. I've talked with a few in southern
California while I'm gone for the month of August. The intent is to gather
information directly from producers as university studies are sometimes
missing marketing information.
Thanks for the response though.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: S & S Aqua Farm
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: Fish data needed
>At 10:13 AM 08/05/2001 -0700, Arlos wrote:
>>Ok kids,
>>
>> I'm trying to present a paper on current production of farmed fish using
>both marine and fresh water species in the US based on region. If any of
>you could share your production rates, prior, current and projected.
Include
>species including exotics (eel, mussel, fresh water shrimp,etc
.), water
>quality controls and waste stream management, size of operation and
location
>and markets. Farmed, caged and ranched numbers also needed. Yes I could get
>numbers from Sea Grant and University studies but I'm trying to get numbers
>directly from producers which vary from the above studies. The study is
>based on reports of the depleted/ diminished stock of ocean species and
>creation of new markets based on public awareness in market choice of wild
>caught verses farmed. Studies through the Monterey Bay Aquarium showed that
>within 20 years, 80% of all seafood (marine and fresh water sources) would
>come from farming. I'm looking at data to support this. Your help would be
>greatly appreciated
>>
>>Arlos
>
>Did you receive the necessary responses or URLs where this information is
>available?
>
>Paula
>S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
>Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
>
>
. .
| Message 37
Subject: RE: reality check
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 13:21:24 -0500
Brent,
I heard about the fire fighters
.blew me away.
Somewhere there has to be a balance between
respecting the earth and meeting our needs.and common sense. I appreciate the balance that your
experience brings to this group. About tomorrow's
technology
.what gets to me here, is technology
is often set back by decades by politicians who
are loyal to the financial interests that put them
in power. Prohibition wasn't really about booze.
It was about stopping the birth of alcohol
based fuels which Henry Ford and others thought
we would use
. but others didn't want that. The
same thing happened to hemp which at one time was
the world's #1 agricultural/industrial crop.
I'm not really a tree hugger
.lol. I just want to be
a hemp/fish/veggie farmer and play around with bio-mass
fuels without the government on my back or worrying
about my son being drawn into some insane war someplace.
take it easy, Brent.
mark
. .
| Message 38
Subject: Re: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
From: kris book
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:50:12 -0600
Steve,
Did you see that air conditioner powered by waste oil. I am sure that you
know that air conditioners remove moisture as well as heat. On the bright
side, all that humidity is great for plant propagation. We used to clone
every kind of vegetable. I didn't keep records but, I am searching the
web to get data to show which varieties clone better. The best thing
about clones is the baby is just as mature as the mother plant, so it
only takes half as long to get the first fruit set as from a plant
started from seed. Plants generally speaking do best in an 80 degree and
80% humidity environment while they are rooting.
k
. .
| Message 39
Subject: RE: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
From: "Hurst, Steve ( China)"
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 04:32:32 +0800
Hi Kris,
Don 'at' t know anything about cloning plants, so will have to look it up.
But if "cloned" plants like Heat and Humidity it would be worth looking
into
Would be interested in any sights or Data you come up with Kris,
Thanks
Steve H
SNIP
Did you see that air conditioner powered by waste oil. I am sure that you
know that air conditioners remove moisture as well as heat. On the bright
side, all that humidity is great for plant propagation. We used to clone
every kind of vegetable. I didn't keep records but, I am searching the
web to get data to show which varieties clone better. The best thing
about clones is the baby is just as mature as the mother plant, so it
only takes half as long to get the first fruit set as from a plant
started from seed. Plants generally speaking do best in an 80 degree and
80% humidity environment while they are rooting.
k
. .
| Message 40
Subject: Re: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
From: "bennett"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:41:42 -0400
WAAAHHH!!!!! I'm not getting all the posts from this list! I want to see
the rest of this one! I think it was from Adrianna, but it didn't get to
me!
>SNIP
>Have you considered the possibility of using some kind of system to
>de-humidify your greenhouse? It may be just a wild idea, but seeing that
>the interior is a "controlled environment" maybe there is some method of
>drawing humidity away from the greenhouse. Nutty idea, I know.
>
>
>
>
. .
| Message 41
Subject: Re: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
From: "bennett"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:43:44 -0400
Where is this air conditioner shown? Do you have a web address?
>Did you see that air conditioner powered by waste oil. I am sure that you
>
. .
| Message 42
Subject: Re: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
From: "bennett"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:43:44 -0400
Where is this air conditioner shown? Do you have a web address?
>Did you see that air conditioner powered by waste oil. I am sure that you
>
. .
| Message 43
Subject: Re: reality check
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:59:31 -0700
Thank you for the kind reply. All types of farming, is being pushed from all
sides.We believe there is strength in numbers, so this and other groups will
become even more important, in the months and years ahead. The producers
must become part of the distribution chain (middle men) in the farming
process. The cotton farmers now have there own marketing arm SWIG. We on the
list should consider all strategies for a mutual good.
Thanks again
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:21 AM
Subject: RE: reality check
> Brent,
>
> I heard about the fire fighters
.blew me away.
> Somewhere there has to be a balance between
> respecting the earth and meeting our needs.> and common sense. I appreciate the balance that your
> experience brings to this group. About tomorrow's
> technology
.what gets to me here, is technology
> is often set back by decades by politicians who
> are loyal to the financial interests that put them
> in power. Prohibition wasn't really about booze.
> It was about stopping the birth of alcohol
> based fuels which Henry Ford and others thought
> we would use
. but others didn't want that. The
> same thing happened to hemp which at one time was
> the world's #1 agricultural/industrial crop.
>
> I'm not really a tree hugger
.lol. I just want to be
> a hemp/fish/veggie farmer and play around with bio-mass
> fuels without the government on my back or worrying
> about my son being drawn into some insane war someplace.
>
> take it easy, Brent.
> mark
>
. .
| Message 44
Subject: Anybody tried Johnny's Compact Genovese Basil?
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:24:26 -0500
Has anybody tried this variety of Genovese Basil from Johnny's
Selected Seeds? Their catalog claims the same size leaves and same
flavor as the regular Genovese Basil, but on more compact plants
.of
course the seed is much more expensive but perhaps yield/sq ft is
higher. What do you think?
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/cgi-local/Minishopsql4.cgi?action=page&adve
r=other&partnumber=778
Adriana
. .
| Message 45
Subject: Re: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 15:28:40 -0700
We have them in some of our facilities. The Rose system did all the testing
we needed to see and we believe in copying success. We are very dependent on
power. The units will run on 30 watts of power and the waste heat from our
stand by generators. As long and the hog farm was operating we Bio-digested
the waste into"organic" liquid fertilizer for the greenhouses and gas for
the generators. The water shortage situation shut down our grain operation
and the hog overhead was to high to be profitable. It may be a good idea for
some in the east and mid west to partner with a hog farmer. The guys at
chillersales 'at' 37.com can give you any information you need. They will also
give any type of farming operation a brake. Glen's site is
www.number1oilfurnace.com
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "bennett"
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
> Where is this air conditioner shown? Do you have a web address?
> >Did you see that air conditioner powered by waste oil. I am sure that you
> >
>
>
. .
| Message 46
Subject: Maggot production
From: "Robert Rogers"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 19:09:19 -0400
Mark,
Please foward your baby fly pictures to me. I thought that tilapia were
vegetarian, in the text of your post tilapia were mentioned, will they eat
maggots?
Thanks, Bob
. .
| Message 47
Subject: Re: reality check
From: "Arlos"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 16:22:15 -0700
Brent,
I've alluded to that point in several posts to consider the idea of an
online cooperative or at least a dialogue in that direction. Everyone I've
talked too about aquaponics while on the road has just become very
enthusiastic about the prospects especially since it puts more control into
their hands over where their food comes from. I for one would become very
involved in this taking place.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Bingham
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: reality check
>Thank you for the kind reply. All types of farming, is being pushed from
all
>sides.We believe there is strength in numbers, so this and other groups
will
>become even more important, in the months and years ahead. The producers
>must become part of the distribution chain (middle men) in the farming
>process. The cotton farmers now have there own marketing arm SWIG. We on
the
>list should consider all strategies for a mutual good.
>Thanks again
>Brent
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Allen Wells"
>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:21 AM
>Subject: RE: reality check
>
>
>> Brent,
>>
>> I heard about the fire fighters
.blew me away.
>> Somewhere there has to be a balance between
>> respecting the earth and meeting our needs.>> and common sense. I appreciate the balance that your
>> experience brings to this group. About tomorrow's
>> technology
.what gets to me here, is technology
>> is often set back by decades by politicians who
>> are loyal to the financial interests that put them
>> in power. Prohibition wasn't really about booze.
>> It was about stopping the birth of alcohol
>> based fuels which Henry Ford and others thought
>> we would use
. but others didn't want that. The
>> same thing happened to hemp which at one time was
>> the world's #1 agricultural/industrial crop.
>>
>> I'm not really a tree hugger
.lol. I just want to be
>> a hemp/fish/veggie farmer and play around with bio-mass
>> fuels without the government on my back or worrying
>> about my son being drawn into some insane war someplace.
>>
>> take it easy, Brent.
>> mark
>>
>
>
. .
| Message 48
Subject: Re: sustainable energy check
From: kris book
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:26:51 -0600
This is the best thing I've seen in sustainable energy!
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2000/02/02-21-2000.html
On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 10:04:54 -0700 "Brent Bingham"
writes:
> Many things are just around the corner and things like fuel cells are
> nearly
> commercially viable.
. .
| Message 49
Subject: Re: Speaking Of Tomatoes-Tropical Problem
From: kris book
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:20:04 -0600
Dear Desparate,
Just click on the Chiller link on the left side of the page
http://www.number1oilfurnace.com/
On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 17:43:44 -0400 "bennett" writes:
> Where is this air conditioner shown? Do you have a web address?
> >Did you see that air conditioner powered by waste oil. I am sure
> that you
> >
>
>
. .
| Message 50
Subject: Report on farmer's market
From: "Hiromi Iwashige"
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 19:49:46 -0500
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_0029_01C11F7A.1C90B000
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yesterday when I wanted to check this list before I attended the city =
council-fire department meeting I was unable to log on because of =
problems with the server. As the meeting turned out, most of the city =
council people were opposed to the fire department's plan to relocate to =
the farmer's market site. The council did seem to solidly support the =
farmer's market and had a plan to relocate it, although we saw some =
problems with the proposed site. It was very near a busy railroad that =
almost all our customers would have had to cross to get to the market. =
Noise and safety were our concerns.
The matter has not been finally resolved, but it looks likely now that =
the fire station will be rebuilt at the current location.
Thanks to all of you for your help and suggestions for additional =
resources. I especially enjoyed the direct quotations from Jefferson's =
writings. Many of the things you suggested did come out in some form at =
the meeting.
Miriam
=_NextPart_000_0029_01C11F7A.1C90B000
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yesterday when I wanted to check this =
list before I=20
attended the city council-fire department meeting I was unable to log on =
because=20
of problems with the server. As the meeting turned out, =
most of=20
the city council people were opposed to the fire department's plan to =
relocate=20
to the farmer's market site. The council did seem to =
solidly=20
support the farmer's market and had a plan to relocate it, although we =
saw some=20
problems with the proposed site. It was very near a busy railroad =
that=20
almost all our customers would have had to cross to get to the =
market. =20
Noise and safety were our concerns.
The matter has not been finally =
resolved, but it=20
looks likely now that the fire station will be rebuilt at the current=20
location.
Thanks to all of you =
for your=20
help and suggestions for additional resources. I especially =
enjoyed the=20
direct quotations from Jefferson's writings. Many of the things =
you=20
suggested did come out in some form at the meeting.
Miriam
=_NextPart_000_0029_01C11F7A.1C90B000--
. .
| Message 51
Subject: Re: Live with chickens in this greenhouse
From: kris book
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 21:25:43 -0600
Mark,
This is a great solar greenhouse.
kris
http://www.bioshelter.com/
. .
| Message 52
Subject: Propagation of Plants - useful information in the propagation of food plants
From: kris book
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 22:19:33 -0600
Steve,
I've been searching for about 6 hours, with very little success. All
these links tell a little about propagation (cloning). I'll try again
tomorrow.The first one might have the best info.
kris
http://telework.ucdavis.edu/Propagation/
http://www.hcs.ohio-state.edu/mg/manual/prop2.htm#A
http://www.rainyside.com/resources/propagation/cuttings.html
http://www.windowbox.com/cgi-bin/experts/DisplayArticle.asp?TopicID=9&Art
icleID=121
http://www.powerup.com.au/~1earth/propagat.html
http://www.crfg.org/tidbits/proptable.html
|
