Aquaponics Digest - Fri 08/10/01
Message 1: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
from "bennett"
Message 2: 12 Volt pumps.
from dreadlox
Message 3: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
from dreadlox
Message 4: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
from "bennett"
Message 5: RE: hybrid bluegill tank size
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 6: Re: Sea Solids?
from "dyarrow"
Message 7: Re: sea solids & usda
from "dyarrow"
Message 8: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 9: IOWA FISH FARMER FINED FOR VIOLATING WILDLIFE LAWS
from "dyarrow"
Message 10: Re: 12 Volt pumps.
from "Nick"
Message 11: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 12: Biofilters and stocking rates
from dreadlox
Message 13: Re: References
from dreadlox
Message 14: Re: 12 Volt pumps.
from dreadlox
Message 15: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
from "Chris Jeppesen"
Message 16: Re: 12 Volt pumps.
from "Nick"
Message 17: Information management
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 18: Fwd. Food Systems Higher Education-Community Partnership
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 19: Re: Aquaponics RE: Air and bacteria
from marc
Message 20: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
from Jim
Message 21: Re: Aquaponics RE: Air and bacteria
from kris book
Message 22: RE: hybrid bluegill tank size - VERY LONG REPLY
from "Ron Brooks"
Message 23: net metering victory in Georgia
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 24: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
from "Arlos"
Message 25: RE: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 26: RE: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
from "gerry magnuson"
. .
| Message 1
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
From: "bennett"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:15:59 -0400
>Come on Donna!
>Be fair. If folks dont have experience with bluegills they cant give
>advice.
Well, I've asked 4 questions is 3 weeks - all about different topics. I got
only one reply. Now, granted, I'm not sure I get ALL my e-mails, but
.one reply out of 4 questions
???
D.
. .
| Message 2
Subject: 12 Volt pumps.
From: dreadlox
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 00:26:40 -0700
--
Something I saw tonight.
http://www.powerboat-reports.com/sample/bilge.html
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 3
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
From: dreadlox
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 00:52:21 -0700
bennett wrote:
> Now, granted, I'm not sure I get ALL my e-mails, but
.> one reply out of 4 questions
???
> D.
--
I might have missed them. Sometimes if it is not "my thing" it may go
unnoticed because someone here is thinking there is someone else with
greater knowledge, and so waits. The question eventually goes misplaced.
As kris said lately, I would suggest trying to learn who knows what on
the list and writing them offlist. That seemed to work for me, and I am
now a few friends more happier.
Send me the questions offlist if U like. I will try and address them for
you, if I know the answers.
Sometimes Donna I have learnt too that a bit of trial and error is
necessary
. after you have killed a few fish them you are well on your
way to glory. I have been on this group for years and am JUST getting
myself started PERSONALLY. I have built systems for industrial uses, but
never for my own.
Sometimes throwing in the little that you do know may inspire someone to
help more. I am sure that stocking rates do not vary THAT much for
various species. If I were in your shoes I would start of with half the
amount of fish per gallon that the REAL profs use, which is a lb of fish
per gallon. I think by stocking say one pound per 2-3 gallons you should
be ok. That means in your 100 gallon tanks you divide 100/say 3 to get
roughly 30 odd lbs of fish in such a tank.
Try that for a start and then increase slowly.Just 2 days ago I started
raising about 1000 fingerlings in my own system , so welcome to the
newbie club.!! :) I have already killed a few potential fish by turning
on a tap in a egg tumbling jar too high and ended up with eggs and now
at least some hatched fish in my BIOFILTER!!! The bass go some caviar!!
See I too learn by trial and error.
All the newbies need to understand too that a lot of professionals that
are usually lurking on this list are now in THE BUSIEST TIME OF THEIR
CALENDAR YEAR! and so not all the time will answers be forthcoming
Just persevere Donna. I have found that if I dont get a reply it is
because folks dont know. I have sometimes gotten a reply LONG afterwards
when someone finally found it out.
Dont give up.
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 4
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
From: "bennett"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:54:28 -0400
>Dont give up.
>
Thanks. I guess deep down I knew that, but just needed to hear it from
someone else maybe.:-)
I'm kind of stressed now trying to do a write-up for a grant proposal and
wanting lots of answers to come real easy. Must remember the easy ones
don't last
:-)
D.
. .
| Message 5
Subject: RE: hybrid bluegill tank size
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:14:01 -0500
D.
If your read my post to Teresa about striped bass you will notice
a link to Purdue and extension agents all over the place. I have written
Ohio State and Songhai Centre in Africa and they both replied back.
Give it a try sometime.
As for bluegill, I wish I could give you a solid answer but I will try.
Lots of things are involved in stocking densities
.can the fish handle
high stocking densities? I don't know about bluegill yet but I am starting
with them. The rate I have seen for tilapia is 1/2 pound at harvest to
one gallon of water. Now how large is a mature hybrid bluegill? I may be
off here
.Gordon, if you read this and I am wrong let me know. They
can get over 2 pounds but that takes a while. I would think they would
need to be 3/4lb to 1lb to get a decent filet. This would mean 38-50
adult fish in a 100 gal tank at that density. Yes, you can grow them
in a 100 gal tank. I have two dozen fingerlings in a 55 gal aquarium
that will be transfered to my 90 gal aquarium. I am just learning about
these fish and about aquaponics so I started with what I had
.lots of
fish tanks. I am starting with less than the recommended stocking
densities for tilapia until I have experience with these fish and with
the plant/fish ratios. If you want someone experienced with them, you
may have trouble finding info on them in recirculating systems because they
haven't been used much in this area
.YET (but they show promise). The folks
at Purdue, Mississippi State, etc may be able to answer more questions.
Try not to get down or discouraged when your questions go unanswered.
You aren't being ignored. Sometimes it may seem that way but it isn't.
I spend lots of time with the search engines, reading
. and writing
contacts
I find. Sometimes those who could answer may not be around for a day or two.
My questions don't always get answered right away
.(but then I talk too
much
LOL).
take care,
mark
--
>Come on Donna!
>Be fair. If folks dont have experience with bluegills they cant give
>advice.
Well, I've asked 4 questions is 3 weeks - all about different topics. I got
only one reply. Now, granted, I'm not sure I get ALL my e-mails, but
.one reply out of 4 questions
???
D.
. .
| Message 6
Subject: Re: Sea Solids?
From: "dyarrow"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:35:04 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete and Diana Scholtens"
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 10:43 AM
Subject: Sea Solids?
> I'm a little perplexed by some of the statements about sea solids. Sounds
> too much like snake oil.
forget the statements. study the data resulting from 25 years of experiments.
explanations may fail to reveal the real reasons and causes for the
experimental outcomes, but those consistent results demonstrate genuine
benefits to using sea solids. and azomite. clearl something was happening,
but the why and how is still largely unknown.
when i moved into this 187-year-old farmhouse, my neighbor -- who grew up in
my house -- warned me: "you'll never get anything to grow there. it's all
just fill." three years later, watching my nine foot sunflowers and bursting
blossoms on vigorous, healthy plants, he wants to know where i get my soil
building ingredients.
i don't truely and really know why my compost and rock powders work to cause
such an explosion of green growth and reproductive exuberance. i can babble
about trace elements, soil minerals, microbes, and organic matter, but it's
all still a mystery to me. but it works, whether i know why or how, or
whether i can explain it, or not. results speak decibels louder than my
words.
> For example, the statement that human blood has the
> same elements in the same ratios as sea water is false. The most common salt
> in salt water and blood is sodium chloride. However, in sea water it's found
> at anywhere from 25 to 35 parts per thousand. In blood it's at 9 parts per
> thousand.
i'm not sure, but i believe murray wasn't referring to the parts per unit of
plasma, but the ratios of the elements to each other. in other words, not
that there is 9 parts per thousand of sodium, but that the sodium is in the
same proportion to the potassium, calcium, magnesium, etc. i find such a fact
hard to believe at first (but not impossible), but i'll take murray's own
evaluation as accurate observational data and see where his reasoning and
results led him next.
> In addition, I seriously doubt the statement that few ocean creatures
> develop degenerative diseases. If this is the case, then why do salmon
> farmers have problems with diseases? Why are beluga whales dying in the Gulf
> of St. Lawrence? The reason you and I see few wild animals at all with
> degenerative diseases is because they get picked off. Survival of the
> fittest. This is as preposterous as the ads selling shark cartilage for
> cancer treatment. They proclaimed, "Have you seen a shark with cancer?" Of
> course the average North American would say no. They could count the number
> of sharks they've seen on their fingers.
murray was a medical doctor who began his research work by studying animals
that showed an inability to get cancer -- a proven resistance to cancer --
toads, for example. he traveled the world to autopsy dead sea creatures and
found no evidence of the degenerative diseases the plagued humans and other
land animals. but in the 30's, 40's and early 50's, ocean pollution was
still minimal, wheras today it has become commonplace, critical and
widespread.
his research was motivated by personal curiousity, not funding from drug
companies or foundations, nor pumping up his professional reputation or career
ambitions. he began his investigations before world war 2, at a time when
there were few sophisticated research tools or elaborate biochemical
understandings or hi-tech treatment protocols involving chemotherapy and
radiation. nor was there yet the explosion of potent industrial chemicals
with unknown biological effects. and few of the trace elements now known to
be crucial to human, animal and plant health had been identified, studied and
reported.
if you read his research reports, you see he was very cautious and
conservative in interpreting and advocating his findings. he didn't leap to
conclusions, but proceeded carefully, methodically from one result to the next
logical experimental trial. he wasn't trying to promote any specific remedy
or prove any particular treatment, but intelligently following a line of
demonstrated research results.
unfortunately, at the time in history murray did his experiments, hardly
anyone much cared about such a basic agricultural, nutritional, dietary
approach to the treatment of disease. natural and organic were unknown
rhetoric in his day. so murray's was a lonely line of private, personal
investigation. he wasn't even controversial; he was simply ignored and
invisible.
~ David Yarrow
Turtle EyeLand Sanctuary
44 Gilligan Road, East Greenbush, NY 12061
518-477-6100
www.championtrees.org
. .
| Message 7
Subject: Re: sea solids & usda
From: "dyarrow"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:32:42 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 1:47 AM
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Wed 08/08/01
> Regarding the Sea Solids thing I suggest you contact the
> USDA. The USDA has a charter to look into things like this.
charter: yes. but where's the funding? unless some business or group puts up
big money for the lengthy and costly repetitive research trials, nothing will
happen.
and even if the research results are positive, nothing will happen unless an
entrepreneur promotes and markets sea solids as an agricultural amendment.
even then, most states will require the soil amendment to be registered for
approval.
and unless the entrepreneur makes a significant profit, the product will
vanish from the marketplace with scarcely a ripple.
~ David Yarrow
Turtle EyeLand Sanctuary
44 Gilligan Road, East Greenbush, NY 12061
518-477-6100
www.championtrees.org
. .
| Message 8
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:55:21 -0500
Hi Donna,
I have no fish but from a workshop I attended and 3 years of reading
this great list I would suggest that you use tilapia stocking
densities, starting with a conservative 1/4# per gallon and increasing
density as you become more experienced. Better yet, go back to Jim
Rakocy's formulas based on feed input/gallon of water. Since tilapia
are tolerant of much higher levels of crowding and lower oxygen than
other varieties I would start with 25% of his suggested density.
Adriana
(come on fish people, help her out!)
> What do you all think the smallest practical size to raise hybrid
bluegill
> in might be? Would they live okay in, say, 100 gallon tanks? HHow
many per
> tank?
>
> Come on, I've read several times in the last month that people
should ask
> questions. Somehow, I don't see many answers coming through though.
. .
| Message 9
Subject: IOWA FISH FARMER FINED FOR VIOLATING WILDLIFE LAWS
From: "dyarrow"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:44:50 -0400
AmeriScan: August 9, 2001
IOWA FISH FARMER FINED FOR VIOLATING WILDLIFE LAWS
AMANA, Iowa, August 9, 2001 (ENS) - The owner of an Iowa fish farm has been
sentenced to home confinement for killing protected birds and introducing
nonnative fish.
As part of a plea agreement, Myron Kloubec, owner of Kloubec Fish Farms in
rural Amana, pleaded guilty to four counts of illegally possessing and
transporting nonnative fish without a permit, and one count of killing
federally protected migratory birds.
In May 1998, Kloubec directed his employees to bring breeder bighead carp from
Randolph County Fish Farm in Missouri to his Iowa fish farm with the intention
of raising the species in one of 63 ponds on the complex. These carp spawned,
creating about one million bighead fry that were later returned to ponds at
the Missouri farm.
Kloubec knew it was illegal to possess, import or export bighead carp without
a permit, but did not apply to the state for the required permit.
Kloubec had applied for a permit to bring black carp into Iowa in 1992 and
1993. In both cases, permission was denied by the Iowa Department of Natural
Resources, citing potential dangers to native fish species should the carp be
introduced into state waters.
Despite the prohibitions, Kloubec bought 1,000 live black carp from a fish
farm in Arkansas in May 1998, and transported them to the Randolph County Fish
Farm in Missouri. He took 200 of the black carp to Iowa where he personally
stocked them into ponds at his Amana farm.
In July 1998, Kloubec illegally imported 10,150 live gold sea bass fry to Iowa
from Taiwan.
Iowa and Missouri state laws limit the exotic species available to commercial
fish farms. The possession of the black carp, bighead carp and gold sea bass
violated sections of the Lacey Act, a federal wildlife protection law that
prohibits trade in species protected or banned by state laws.
Kloubec also pleaded guilty to one violation of killing protected migratory
birds. In June and July 1998, Kloubec was observed shooting birds flying over
his ponds, killing at least two terns and one kingfisher. The birds are
protected by the federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act.
Kloubeck was fined $13,654, which will be paid into the Lacey Act reward fund,
an account that pays rewards to persons who provide information to law
enforcement agencies about violations of federal wildlife laws. Besides
serving six months home confinement, Kloubeck will serve three years
probation.
~ David Yarrow
Turtle EyeLand Sanctuary
44 Gilligan Road, East Greenbush, NY 12061
518-477-6100
www.championtrees.org
. .
| Message 10
Subject: Re: 12 Volt pumps.
From: "Nick"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 02:05:37 -0700
> --
> Something I saw tonight.
> http://www.powerboat-reports.com/sample/bilge.html
> ><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
> JAMAICA, West Indies
We have been using the Atwood V1250 pumps here for about a year now. We run
two that cycle every 2 hours for about 15 minutes. There has not been a
failure as yet. I forget what they cost now, but they seemed like a pretty
good buy for what they have been doing.
. .
| Message 11
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:01:43 +0200
Hi Donna
It appears that there is little documented information on raising bluegill
in recirculating systems. Why not start by contacting Ken's Fish Farm and
finding out what their experience is concerning the topic, they may well
have advice for you. Otherwise stick to the basics of designing the system
such that the oxygen and biofiltration are adequate for tilapia (a tough
species), and stock the bluegill fingerlings at 10% of the density you would
use for tilapia of the same size. As fish grow their biomass increases and
they need to be thinned out. Rely on this to tell you when the bluegill are
too heavily stocked for your system. Monitor the growth rate on a weekly
basis by weighing the fish and charting the results. When you notice that
the growth rate is slowing down you should halve the number of fish in the
system. This may seem simplistic - but it works well.
You can apply the same method of monitoring growth rate from a very small
size to tell you what size fish can be reared in what size tank, given the
biofiltration and aeration. Bear in mind that water quality is the real
factor that determines growth rate, not tank size (assuming feed, etc. to be
constant).
The fun part is identifying the limiting factor that caused the growth to
taper off. With social fish species, such as tilapia, it is usually water
quality (nitrogen accumulation or DO shortage) but with a predatory or
territorial species you often find that social interactions play a role as
well. Interestingly enough, high densities are often the solution to
negative social interactions.
All the best,
Leslie
> What do you all think the smallest practical size to raise hybrid bluegill
> in might be? Would they live okay in, say, 100 gallon tanks? HHow many
per
> tank?
. .
| Message 12
Subject: Biofilters and stocking rates
From: dreadlox
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 05:01:52 -0700
Blast from the past thats just as valid today as yesterday that may help
a few people.
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
--
Subject:
Re: biofilter sizing
Date:
Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:15:58 -0600
From:
"TGTX"
Reply-To:
aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
To:
References:
1 , 2
> Hi Jim, I am new to these calculations, I got lost when you went from
> surface area (ft2) needed to how many cubic feet of gravel you
> install. Perhaps that is not what you are talking about below?
Carolyn,
Perhaps these SWAG numbers will help:
Approx. 200 ft^2 surface area in 1 cubic foot of pea gravel, nominal 1/4
inch diameter sized pebbles.
For the adventuresome and confident recirculation aquaculturist, 1 lb
fish
per gallon of culture water is
ah, adventuresome. Must have
"Boo-Koo"
"Mucho"
"a whole lotta" oxygen
. at least 80%
saturation
.all the time, with no exceptions, even for a few
minutes
.to support the 1 lb fish per gallon all the way to harvest. But it can
be
done with adequate aeration and reliable electrical energy
there's
the
rub
So, let's say the home scale aquaponic enthusiast starts out the journey
of
trying aquaponics for the first time, with a plan to achieve 0.25 lbs of
fish per gallon of culture water
.not at the initial stocking of
fingerlings, but at the harvest of 1 lb whole tilapia after 9 to 12
months
of growth. That should be fairly easy to achieve. Then next time, you
can
try 0.5 lbs per gallon, then 0.75 lbs, as far and as successful as you
want
to go.
So for example, stocking a 1000 gallon tank (133.7 cubic feet) with 280
fingerlings and growing them all out to 1 pound fish, with a few
mortalities, perhaps (less than 10% mortalities, or about 30 fish lost)
will
give you about 250 lbs of fish at harvest. Pumping the 1000 gallon
culture
tank volume through an aquaponics bed at about 10 times per day, you
would
pump 10,000 gallons per day through your gravel beds. At 60 gallons per
minute pumping rate, that would be a total of about 167 minutes per 24
hour
day. That might translate to 3.5 minutes of pumping at 60 gpm every 30
minutes, or some variation on that. What size bed? How about 2 beds 4
foot
wide by 32 feet long by 6 inches deep, or some variation of that?
That's about 128 cubic feet of 1/4" pea gravel, giving you a presumed
biofilter surface area of 25,600 sq.ft., which should be enough for 73
lbs
of fish at the 350 ft^2 surface area to 1 lb rule if it were a
conventional
nitrifying biofilter. This is where I really question the 350 ft^2 rule
of
thumb that I have heard about sometimes. Approx. 350 ft^2 surface area
of
biofilter media or medium per 1 lb fish cultured is for conventional
biofilters
I believe you can get by with much less with an aquaponic
system because the root surfaces are providing an unknown but presumably
very high surface area in the voids or pores of the pea gravel, and the
roots are actively assimilating nitrogenous wastes alongside of the
nitrifiers present.
I believe that as the nitrate is taken up by plants, the nitrifiers have
an
easier job of converting ammonia to nitrite and then nitrite to
nitrate. I
use the analogy of a guy moving bricks from one pile to another pile.
Assume
that the rule is that you must throw the nitrite brick to the top of the
pile of the nitrate bricks. The higher and higher the pile of nitrate
bricks, the harder and harder it gets to reduce the nitrite brick pile
in
size and height. (this is a very crude example or analogy of how
accumulation of metabolic by products can inhibit the enzyme kinetics in
microbes) Same analogy can be used with the ammonia to nitrite
conversion
process. The aquaponics scenario is more complex than this, however,
since
plants can assimilate all 3 forms of inorganic nitrogen. Oh, well, I
tried.
Neat thing about aquaponics is that the synergy of the plants, the
earthworms, and the bacteria are more than the sum of their parts when
it
comes to processing both organic matter in the beds as well as the
nitrogenous wastes
In the example I gave of the growing beds, you
would
have 256 square feet to grow plants in. You could probably grow 500 to
1000 lbs of produce (salad greens and herbs like basil, etc
.) on that
amount of area each year
.perhaps a lot more depending on your light,
temperature, and insect pest factors.
Hope this helps.
Ted
. .
| Message 13
Subject: Re: References
From: dreadlox
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 05:04:32 -0700
Arlus Farnsworth wrote:
>
> You can make a looping ms-word visual basic macro that will process the entire list
> into your html.--
Thanks to all the folks who responded onlist and offlist, seems like
well get this thing off the ground after all!! THANKS to all who
responded. I will take the further correspondence on this offlist. We
have now started the process, and I will contact all those who showed
interest if that need still exists.
Love y'all
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 14
Subject: Re: 12 Volt pumps.
From: dreadlox
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 05:12:41 -0700
Nick wrote:
>
> > --
> > Something I saw tonight.
> > http://www.powerboat-reports.com/sample/bilge.html
> > ><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
> > JAMAICA, West Indies
>
> We have been using the Atwood V1250 pumps here for about a year now. We run
> two that cycle every 2 hours for about 15 minutes. There has not been a
> failure as yet. I forget what they cost now, but they seemed like a pretty
> good buy for what they have been doing.
--
Nick, do you have them fully submerged?
I had to "sacrifice" two 12 v pumps tonight, and Attwood V500 because of
water in the motor
leaking thru the cable gland, and a no name from
Europe with the same problem. I will now just put them in a few inches
of water, or retrospectively seal the gland additionally with some
compund or silicon.
I have found that to b their weak spot. If the Attwood had not been
totally submerged it would prolly still be running.
I was going to post to the group, that before using 12v pumps to check
if they can handle full submersion. I was running those V500 full time
for 2.5 months now. I will dry them up and prolly cast them in some
epoxy or something, but they will never be what they were. I have them
drying in the bottom of my gas stove now, I know they will work when the
motor is dry again.
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 15
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
From: "Chris Jeppesen"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 06:28:49 -0700
Hey Donna
The honest answer is I don't know. But it sounds like a viable project. I've been toying with
the idea of a fifty gallon drum and grow bed(s) that drain dirictly back without a second pump.
You will have to play with the Population density. If it was my only tank I would stock with
what would grow out to a pound a gallon and then would harvest or transfer to a newer tank in
order to keep the density below .4 pounds per gallon.
What are you thinking for this project or what is you basic plan. Give us more details of your
thinking. The process will crystalize your thinking.
Good luck
Chris Jeppesen
> "bennett" Re: hybrid bluegill tank sizeDate:
Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:15:59 -0400
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>
>>Come on Donna!
>>Be fair. If folks dont have experience with bluegills they cant give
>>advice.
>
>Well, I've asked 4 questions is 3 weeks - all about different topics. I got
>only one reply. Now, granted, I'm not sure I get ALL my e-mails, but
.>one reply out of 4 questions
???
> D.
. .
| Message 16
Subject: Re: 12 Volt pumps.
From: "Nick"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 06:57:16 -0700
>
> Nick, do you have them fully submerged?
>
> I had to "sacrifice" two 12 v pumps tonight, and Attwood V500 because of
> water in the motor
leaking thru the cable gland, and a no name from
> Europe with the same problem. I will now just put them in a few inches
> of water, or retrospectively seal the gland additionally with some
> compund or silicon.
>
> I have found that to b their weak spot. If the Attwood had not been
> totally submerged it would prolly still be running.
>
Hi Mike,
Both (Attwood V1250's) are fully submerged, at up to about 18 inches. I had
problems w/a couple of the smaller ones before I went to the 1250's but do
not know if it was because of leaky packings. I did not disassemble them.
The other ones were Attwoods and around the 500 - 600 size.
nick
. .
| Message 17
Subject: Information management
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:36:07 -0500
Hi Gang,
I was sitting up last night cutting and pasting
stuff from the list into a neat program I have used for
a while called GS Notes. It is a free and very handy
program for organizing the tons of information we come
across. It can be used to simply store info in a free
form outline, organize a book or a project
.lots of
uses. Some may be using a program like this or have their
own system set up, but if you don't it can really help
you keep track of things. It supports links also. You
simply create an outline, making folders for each subject
and create the content for the pages within those folders.
You can create folders within folders as deep as you wish.
My Aquaponics folder is organized something like;
Aquaponics
Water
Fish
Plants
Maggots/Redworms
Systems
Processes
Resources
Links
Equipment
It's a neat little program
.here is the link.http://www.tgslabs.com/gsn.php3 info overload can be a pain.
programs like this are a big help.
peace,
mark
. .
| Message 18
Subject: Fwd. Food Systems Higher Education-Community Partnership
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:14:27 -0500
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 06:08:04 -0400
Sender: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group
From: Food and Society
Subject: Food Systems Higher Education-Community Partnership
THE W.K. KELLOGG FOUNDATION
announces the
The Food Systems Higher Education-Community Partnership
The W.K. Kellogg Foundation's Food and Society (FAS) initiative is based on
a vision of a food system that provides access for all segments of society
to a safe and nutritious food supply. That food supply will be grown in a
manner that provides profits, protects the environment, and adds economic
and social value to people in rural and urban environments. The Foundation
is especially interested in promoting community-based food systems
enterprises that are owned locally, sound environmentally, and health
promoting.
To advance this vision, The Foundation is pleased to announce a new funding
program -- The Food Systems Higher Education-Community Partnership. This
program is designed to enhance the capacity of universities and colleges to
work collaboratively with nonprofit, government, community-based, and
private sector partners on critical food systems issues with local
relevance. The Foundation is especially interested in funding innovative
models of institutional engagement -- approaches that demonstrate in theory
and practice how higher education establishes, develops, and sustains
mutually beneficial and transformative partnerships with constituencies.
Reflecting these twin aims -- local food systems innovation and higher
education engagement -- the centerpiece of each partnership will be an
innovative food systems project conceived and undertaken collaboratively by
an interdisciplinary group of faculty fellows and food systems
collaborators. The partnerships funded nationwide will form a learning
community network -- exchanging perspectives, strategies, approaches, and
outcomes; and engaging in joint problem posing and issue resolution.
The Foundation will invest $3.5 million in this program over four years.
The number of projects to be funded is contingent on the budget size of
approved projects. Funding requests should not exceed $700,000. Funding
will likely begin during the first quarter of calendar year 2002.
To be considered, submit a short (no longer than 3 pages) LETTER OF
INTEREST to the Foundation by FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 28, 2001. Partners should
document their commitment to the FAS vision, describe the centerpiece
project, and make a funding request including a projected time line (with
major budget lines) to support the proposed partnership. The Foundation
expects higher education partners to commit a significant amount in
matching or cash resources.
Submit letters electronically to . Direct questions
associated with your letter of interest to Professor Frank A. Fear at
fear 'at' msu.edu or 517/432-0734. Dr. Fear, a Michigan State University faculty
member, is a Foundation consultant for the FAS initiative.
. .
| Message 19
Subject: Re: Aquaponics RE: Air and bacteria
From: marc
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:08:00 -0600
I think folks should be kinder to these poor people trying
to help the agricultural community. I mean look at the awful
things they have to put up with and all they want to do is
discover products that do things NO other product has ever
been able to do and will actually save the planet.
The inventors spend years in various basements trying
thousands of different formulas.
The government always ignores the incredible benefits of
these products.
The chemical, petroleum, big ag or whomever companies always
attempt to suppress them.
Years trying to benefit society in a constant uphill battle
against ridicule, scorn, starvation, lack of funding,
attacks from competitors and seizure of equipment and/or
research notes by the CIA or FBI or USDA or Monsanto who
arrive in unmarked white vans.
Police will ignore the criminal acts of siezure and threaten
to jail the victim if they say anything more.
Fortunately the Police are incompetent so they do not jail
the victim when they publish a 50 megabyte webpage telling
their story and trying to raise money for more research or
sell the suppressed product.
The Agricultural community is part of the "entrenched
interests" so refuses to triple their profits and halve
their labor by using the product.
The inventors include ALL the important things when they
come up with these products like organic, natural,
lifeforces, primordial, holistic, magnetic, renewable,
crystal, quark, colloidial, atomic, molecular, foliar,
bacteria, heuristic, etc.
Special fertilizers are carefully created as part of the
"growing system" and are so good they cost 50 to 200 dollars
a gallon.
They even include instructions and even tell folks THEY MUST
FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY! How considerate!
After customers get results from explicitly following the
instructions they even bother to post the letters and
pictures of enthusiasm on their website.
Careful consideration is given current vital items of
societal interest such as magnets, crystals, "Living Water",
Schaumberger, renewable, volcanic, rock dust, trace
minerals, Tesla, weak forces, etc.
After all this trouble they still don't get very far. It
just doesn't seem fair.
Marc Nameth
Fowler, CO
> I'm a little perplexed by some of the statements about sea solids. Sounds
> too much like snake oil. For example, the statement that human blood has the
. .
| Message 20
Subject: Re: hybrid bluegill tank size
From: Jim
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:50:31 -0500
I guess I'm in danger of joining the 'Socially insensitive one' before
this email is over, but I'll answer the bluegill question first
Short answer: Yes, you can raise Hybrid bluegill in plastic 55 gallon
drums
But the smaller your system, the easier it is to get out of
balance. Same goes for stocking density. A few fish off one way or the
other isn't too bad on a 1000 gal tank, but it'll feel like you can get
in trouble 20 times as fast raising fish in a barrel so you'll need to
keep the density down around 1/4lb/gal and plan of culling out a lot of
fish as you go along, or plan on adding additional barrels at
progressively shorter intervals as the fish grow.
I start fingerlings in barrels and switch them in and out of bigger
systems to balance nutrient flow as fish are harvested from the big
tanks.
I think there's a good thread detailing everything from problems, to
equipment sources in the archive
All the usual factors are there
Now for the 'Socially insensitive part', or tough love, however you want
to take it
1) I haven't seen any questions where someone hasn't tried to help. If
you want instant answers, to your spec, I'm sure several consultants
will fix you right up.
2) Same goes for your plan for others to fill in all the blanks for your
grant write-up.
3) If you didn't see the replies posted, and you're not sure about the
reliability of your email service, try not to whine about not getting
your answers filed in triplicate by your due date
This is a coffee
shop in cyberland where a bunch of knowledgeable, helpful, hardworking
folks get together to talk shop, and help the rookies when they can.
Sometimes the rookies help us too. Sometimes (like now) some of us are
over our heads in work and can't spend much time on-line.
Jim
PS: I only raise the bream up to big enough that I can transfer them to
net cages in our catfish ponds.
PPS: Coded and posted Mike's link page with the archives at
http://www.i55mall.com/aquaponics/
PPPS: I really do plan to get the archives up to date
Owe Paula too
many hours to not hold up my end of the deal after all her hard work
putting up with all of us
:)
bennett wrote:
>
> >Dont give up.
> >
> Thanks. I guess deep down I knew that, but just needed to hear it from
> someone else maybe.:-)
> I'm kind of stressed now trying to do a write-up for a grant proposal and
> wanting lots of answers to come real easy. Must remember the easy ones
> don't last
:-)
> D.
. .
| Message 21
Subject: Re: Aquaponics RE: Air and bacteria
From: kris book
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 11:58:04 -0600
Is the sky falling? Did someone tip over the half empty glass? Who needs
the government's aid? This group is the 21st century's real pioneers. If
we stick together and form a union or coop or whatever name is best
suited, we will succeed in bringing this great low-tech food production
system into the public's view. I read recently that our food production
techniques must improve to a point where we can triple today's production
just to keep things going as they are today, which is real inefficient.
IMHO, aquaponics and the complete food production systems that will
emerge from aquaponics can handle the whatever load is placed on the
farmers of this century.
I think that this wonderful Internet will make the difference, knowledge
is flowing at a rate never seen before. Education will not only stop the
drug problem, it will ultimately stop greed, which is the world's number
one problem. I don't know a lot about creating a coop but, I will begin
searching the net right away. Any suggestions will be greatly
appreciated.
kris book
. .
| Message 22
Subject: RE: hybrid bluegill tank size - VERY LONG REPLY
From: "Ron Brooks"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:06:09 -0400
Donna
Trust me unless you do not get a reply in 10 days or so you are not being
ignored. As stated earlier a lot of us our real busy right now. Even though
I read the emails every night I usually do not reply at that time I usually
wait until the weekend or slow time.
now as for your question
hybrid bluegill
temp range of 55 - 80 F
tolerate cold well , in fact need a short cold spell to start the
reproduction cycle
do NOT tolerate D.O. levels below 3 ppm
PH range 6.5-8.5
NH3 levels below 0.1 ppm
harvest size starting at 6 inches in length
harvest weight 1 pound
surface feeders
Do not like rapid currents
until very recently used to stock ponds and for pond cage culture. as far as
tank rearing or indoor growing the species can be considered in the birthing
phase. There really is not a lot of people doing it Yellow perch are getting
the priority
now for stocking
What everyone has stated so far is true, WE DON'T KNOW. So the best we can
do is give you guesstimates. So the question that you must ask to get
answers to get the final stocking densities are many , including how big is
my tank(s) , how am I returning the flow of water to the tanks ,am I going
to supplement O2 levels to keep it above 5 ppm , as I know the will start
going belly up at 3 and under , How fast do I want them to grow out to
harvest size , pond culture takes a year , which means that with hybrids I
can get a faster growth but then again I have to be very much on top of the
parameters listed above. Is there a market for my fish , if your fishmonger
says he will buy that's fine and dandy , but if his customers will not buy
it in , in reality he will only buy once , on the other hand if he
consistently sells trout and is constantly buying it from out of state ,
there is your market , with pushing the home state or grown right here in
___ label.
also Are you going to grow the fish from fingerlings to harvest in one tank
if so at the beginning it might seem that the tank is way to big for the
amount of fish.
So now on to the guessing part
If I was going to do it I would stock no more than 1 pound of fish for every
four gallons of water , of the mature harvest weight of the fish not the
fingerling weight.
So what that means is that If I have a 1000 gallon tank and I determine that
I want a harvest weight of 250 pounds of fish and I plan to harvest them at
1 pound size that means 250 fish
Which is so mush easier than the following
finish weight of 250 pounds fingerlings weigh 2 grams a piece so 28 grams
make an ounce ( yes I know 28.350 grams to an ounce ) so that means that 14
fish per ounce , 224 fish per pound and 56,000 for my gallons
But wait wont they grow up to be 56,000 pounds of fish if that is my harvest
weight goal.
yes which means that you will be doing weekly sorting and have to have a
large amount of tanks
So you can see the difference in answers you will get by just asking the
same question two different ways
so my gut instinct is to tell you to go out and buy 250 fish for your 1000
gallon tank ( if that is your tank size ) and to keep records daily
including water parameters and weigh at least 25 fish in 2 gallons of water
weekly to get your growth rates ( always use the same bucket and the same
amount of fish and use a 1 gallon pitcher to measure water into the bucket
so that your water volume is always the same.
and after your first crop look at your data and see if it was way easy to
grow or if you need to lower stocking density or can you increase stocking
density
here is a little formula to help determine how much feed to feed your fish
per day depending on their weight , which is why you should determine weekly
the weight of your fish
For the first week or two to you are sure the biofilter is up and running
feed 3% of weight of fish in food daily than after that feed up to 6% of
weight in food
so you weigh out 25 fish and the weight of the bucket with water is lets say
18 pounds and with the fish in it comes to 18.25 pounds so the weight of the
fish is actually 4 ounces ( remember our math system is base 10 but our
weight system is base 16 ) So if I take the 4 ounces and times it by 10 (250
fish / 25 fish sample )I get 40 ounces of fish I need to feed ( roughly , as
I am not weighing each fish ) so at 6% of weight feeding I should feed 40 *
.6 or 24 ounces of feed per day. Now this is under ideal perfect
circumstances , your water conditions and fish will determine if you are
feeding to much or too little this formula just gives you a starting point .
Real life example from my system
the first 9 weeks my fingerlings would eat 4% of their body weight daily in
feed ( spread out into four feeding ) Then all of a sudden they would not
eat more than 1% a day , now this bothered me and I starting to take water
tests 5-6 times a day sat down and talked to Laura The state aquaculture
extension agent and we could not come up with a reason at the time. This is
where daily records become very important. then all of a sudden 3 weeks
later they started to eat 9% of their body weight a day and then dropped
back down 2 weeks later to 6% and stayed there for about 5 weeks and then
again I had a slump . Well then I decided to tear apart the system and
rebuild it as certainly there was a factor there that was being overlooked
and it had to be my system design it just had to be , Well that's when I
found a sump full of 1/2 to 1 inch fry. Low and behold my feeding and growth
slumps were because they were breeding . So I ended up lowering the temp 5
degrees and that seemed to help so when I look at the date from the first
group of Tilapia I learned a lot to carry over to my second group and so on
The data just builds and that is how you learn and old-timers can just look
at your system and out of nowhere say well here is your problem And you just
look at them dumbfounded with your mouth on the floor :)
We won't even go to where I killed off an entire line of tilapia I brought
in to use as future breeders trying to get all male offspring that even at
the size of .25 inch fry already had been contaminated with 3 differing
diseases that showed up and killed 70% of them overnight and then having to
make the decision to kill the rest of them as the would always be carriers
and I would not be able to use them or their offspring in my breeding
experiments , now that was expensive
Ron
The One Who Walks Two Paths
. .
| Message 23
Subject: net metering victory in Georgia
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:05:15 -0500
Hi folks,
If anyone lives in Georgia and is thinking
about a renewable energy system for their greenhouse
or farm, they should look into this
-----
Georgia
Net Energy Metering Law
On April 28, 2001, Georgia Governor Roy Barnes signed into law
a net metering requirement that allows customer generators to be
compensated at a higher than avoided cost rate if the utility uses
the power to supply a green pricing program. Under the law, customers
can be compensated for any power produced in excess of on-site needs
or for all of the power generated from the system, depending on the
metering arrangement selected.
The net metering requirement applies to solar photovoltaic, fuel cell,
and wind systems of up to 10 kilowatts (kW) in size for residential
applications and up to 100 kW for commercial applications. Utilities
are required to purchase the excess power from an eligible customer
generator until the cumulative renewable energy capacity reaches 0.2%
of the utility's system peak load.
For further information, see the full text of legislation, Georgia
Cogeneration and Net Metering Act (SB93).
http://www.legis.state.ga.us/Legis/2001_02/sum/sb93.htm
-----
There is also a great article in this month's Homepower magazine
about a Georgia fellow who is taking advantage of this. The entire
magazine is available for free download from http://www.homepower.com
There aren't many magazines that are given away like this every
month. It's a great resource for the homepower freak.
*power to the people*
.LOL>
mark
. .
| Message 24
Subject: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
From: "Arlos"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:51:48 -0700
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_000E_01C121BC.BF1CF9C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hola Kids,
For those that live in the West, here is a great resource; =
http://aqua.ucdavis.edu/
If they can't tell you about species and stocking density, then no one =
can. On another note, I spoke with the fish head or head fish for the =
state in Sacramento concerning importation of non native species for =
aquaculture purposes. Nope on Tilapia unless south of Tehachape (sp) =
where there are a number of of farms in the southern California desert. =
What suprised me was the negative response to Red Claw as there has =
already been a farm established but disease had caused the operation to =
cease (longer story). I talked with the one individual who made the =
decision to ban importation and farm raising of Red Claw. with a follow =
up to a pathologist over the two identified disease's. during an hours =
conversation it was decided that a follow up meeting in Sept we would =
address the issues to allow importation and farm raising once again =
provided I became a state registered aquarist (not a problem). Notice, =
names were left out
. intentionally because this is going to take some =
great effort on my part without having a large contingency show up for =
that meeting. (It's not a public meeting so the Browns Law does not =
become an issue). I'll keep the group posted after the meeting on the =
results.
Reading David Yarrow's reprint of the fish farmer in Iowa is a wake =
up for anyone to do their homework first.
Arlos
=_NextPart_000_000E_01C121BC.BF1CF9C0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hola Kids,
For those that live in the West, here is a =
great=20
resource; http://aqua.ucdavis.edu/
If they can't tell you about species and stocking =
density,=20
then no one can. On another note, I spoke with the fish head or head =
fish for=20
the state in Sacramento concerning importation of non native species for =
aquaculture purposes. Nope on Tilapia unless south of Tehachape (sp) =
where there=20
are a number of of farms in the southern California desert. What =
suprised me was=20
the negative response to Red Claw as there has already been a farm =
established=20
but disease had caused the operation to cease (longer story). I talked =
with the=20
one individual who made the decision to ban importation and farm raising =
of Red=20
Claw. with a follow up to a pathologist over the two identified =
disease's.=20
during an hours conversation it was decided that a follow up meeting in =
Sept we=20
would address the issues to allow importation and farm raising once =
again=20
provided I became a state registered aquarist (not a problem). Notice, =
names=20
were left out
. intentionally because this is going to take some great =
effort=20
on my part without having a large contingency show up for that meeting. =
(It's=20
not a public meeting so the Browns Law does not become an issue). I'll =
keep the=20
group posted after the meeting on the results.
Reading David Yarrow's reprint of the fish =
farmer in=20
Iowa is a wake up for anyone to do their homework =
first.
Arlos
=_NextPart_000_000E_01C121BC.BF1CF9C0--
. .
| Message 25
Subject: RE: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:09:39 -0500
> Reading David Yarrow's reprint of the fish farmer in Iowa is a
wake up for anyone to do their homework first.
Arlos,
Between that and Brent's post about the insurance company not paying
up on the ceiling fire
.you are right! There is so much red tape
in California, I don't know how anything gets done
but the rest of
us need to be aware of our state laws too. One of my links is to the
Indiana Code. For the hobbyist, a lot can be gotten away with
but
for someone trying to start a business, some homework now can be the
difference between success and failure.
I hope your trip is going well,
Mark
. .
| Message 26
Subject: RE: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 18:42:58 -1000
mornin' mark, as you seem to be up this early, what would be your take on
using asphalt in a greenhouse? advantages, pitfalls, verses concrete or just
gravel?
>From: "Mark Allen Wells"
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>
>Subject: RE: Raise a fish, Go to jail, It's the law
>Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 23:09:39 -0500
>
> > Reading David Yarrow's reprint of the fish farmer in Iowa is a
>wake up for anyone to do their homework first.
>
>Arlos,
>
>Between that and Brent's post about the insurance company not paying
>up on the ceiling fire
.you are right! There is so much red tape
>in California, I don't know how anything gets done
but the rest of
>us need to be aware of our state laws too. One of my links is to the
>Indiana Code. For the hobbyist, a lot can be gotten away with
but
>for someone trying to start a business, some homework now can be the
>difference between success and failure.
>
>I hope your trip is going well,
>Mark
|
