Aquaponics Digest - Mon 08/13/01
Message 1: Re: A lurker's hello
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 2: Re: Scanners
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 3: Ref: Lurker's Hello
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 4: Re: Polystyrene balls as a grow medium
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 5: Re: Need help with Feed!
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 6: shocking
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 7: Re: Polystyrene balls as a grow medium
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 8: Website
.finally.
from dreadlox
Message 9: RE: Water Water everywhere. from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 10: RE: shocking
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 11: Re: Water Water everywhere. from dreadlox
Message 12: Re: shocking
from dreadlox
Message 13: RE: Website
.finally.
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 14: RE: A lurker's hello
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 15: Re: Water Water everywhere. from "Arlos"
Message 16: RE: Water Water everywhere. from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 17: Re: Water Water everywhere. from "F.Carl Uhland"
Message 18: Re: Water Water everywhere. from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 19: RE: Water Water everywhere. from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 20: RE: Water Water everywhere. from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 21: Re: Polystyrene balls as a grow medium
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 22: Re: A lurker's hello
from Mick
Message 23: Re: Water Water everywhere. from "Arlos"
Message 24: Re: Water Water everywhere. from "Arlos"
Message 25: Re: A lurker's hello
from Mick
Message 26: Re: Water Water everywhere. from "Arlos"
Message 27: Re: Water Water everywhere. from "Arlos"
Message 28: Seeding a Biofilter
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 29: Re: Seeding a Biofilter
from Mick
Message 30: Re: Seeding a Biofilter
from dreadlox
Message 31: RE: tanks and grow beds
from "Chris Jeppesen"
Message 32: Re: pacu
from "Chris Jeppesen"
Message 33: Seeding a biofilter
from kris book
Message 34: Re: Water Water everywhere. from "Brent Bingham"
Message 35: AC condensate pH
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 36: Re: Seeding a Biofilter
from Mick
Message 37: Re: Ref: Lurker's raccoons
from Mick
Message 38: Re: Ref: Lurker's raccoons
from Jim
Message 39: Re: Water Water everywhere. from "Arlos"
Message 40: Re: Ref: Lurker's raccoons
from "Arlos"
Message 41: Re: A lurker's hello
from "gerry magnuson"
Message 42: Re: Seeding a Biofilter
from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 43: Re: pacu
from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 44: Re: AC condensate pH
from "Arlos"
Message 45:
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 46: Re: A lurker's hello
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 47: Re:
from "Arlos"
Message 48: List membership is international
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 49: Re: List membership is international
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 50: Re: List membership is international
from "Arlos"
Message 51: Re: List membership is international
from "Arlos"
. .
| Message 1
Subject: Re: A lurker's hello
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:20:54 -0500
I too did the Asian Green Bean. It did so well that I had to discontinue it.
It took over everything. This would be a great product to produce if you
have the room. I just didn't have the room for such a prolific performer.
I just wish I could have the success with tomatos that you guys have.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "S & S Aqua Farm"
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: A lurker's hello
At 07:13 PM 08/12/2001 -0500, Mick wrote:
>
>The tomatoes seem to like the gravel environment provided the flow of
>water is constant. The beans seem to hate it. Pole beans climb to
>about eight inches and then gradually die out without crop production.
>Has anyone had any luck raising beans this way? I'm germinating some
>bush bean seeds now in the hope they will do better.
We've had good luck with bush beans, Mick, but have never tried pole beans.
I don't know why they would be different in their growth needs, necessarily.
Our best seller at the farmers market (after a bit of sampling and
education) was French fillet beans, which are definitely a good alternative
for those looking for something different from (locally available) green
beans. I was very pleased with their production. We also have grown an
"Asian green bean", but I'm not sure of the proper name because the seeds
were given to us (12-18" long - maybe it's called something else). This
plant is definitely a climbing/vining variety, and quite fun to raise. I
would think it would perform similar to a pole bean, so perhaps your variety
was just not suited for this fertile a system. We used our overhead
horizontal supports (normally used for tying up tomatoes, securing overhead
pipes, etc.) and trained the vines along them. It was great to be able to
pick the beans from the underside of the plants. Those we missed and which
grew too large for selling in the pod were sold as shelling beans and/or
seed-saving pods. We found even in our small community there are those who
valued that particular variety for their ethnic dishes.
>This year has been trial and error since neither of us knew anything
>about raising tilapia or hydroponically growing vegetables, much less
>combining the two systems. But, I wouldn't have missed this for
>anything. I love it and I'm thoroughly hooked. I feel like we're doing
>something good for the planet and for ourselves by learning to grow
>wholesome food with less water and no pollution in a recycled closed
>system.
Glad to hear you've enjoyed the learning process. It's still fascinating to
us after all these years as well!
Paula Speraneo
S&S Aqua Farm, 8386 County Road 8820, West Plains, MO 65775 417-256-5124
Web page http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
. .
| Message 2
Subject: Re: Scanners
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:30:31 -0500
My all-time favorite is, "You may be a redneck if, after you cut your grass
you find your car that you lost two years ago." I laugh just now thinking
about it!!
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 3:13 PM
Subject: Scanners
You may be a redneck if you think a scanner is for listening
to the police radio band?
> Hey Mike,
>
> You must think that this southern boy is the dumbest to come down the pike
> for awhile.
>
> Remember when you asked me to send pictures to you and you would put it on
> our mutual (aquaponic) website? Well, I asked you for your address. We
were
> talking about scanners. I'm so "not used" to having a scanner that it
didn't
> dawn on me for a few days when I was driving to work that, "Hey Stupid",
he
> meant scan them to him
.DUHHHHHH!
>
> When I get some pictures, I will try to send them your way.
>
> Sorry
As my "mama' told me one time, "You may be Southern, but you
ain't
> no redneck!"
>
> Later
(egg on my face)
.Steve
. .
| Message 3
Subject: Ref: Lurker's Hello
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:50:25 -0500
Hi Gang,
In reference to Mickey's problem with the raccoons. This is kind of related
to aquaponics. If you do aquaponics then you are going to have dead fish.
I won't go into a lot of detail, but I had a major fish kill (to me
.not
like that guy who had acres of dead fish) involving catfish in my pond. All
of a sudden I had to dispose of hundreds of dead catfish. Now, keep in mind
that I don't exactly live in the country. (Kind of, but not exactly.) Well,
I cleaned what I could of the ones that were still alive
.ever tried to
clean hundreds of catfish
.YUCK!!
Well, got this done. Some were buried under trees, plants, etc and some were
buried in the "back 40". Well, when I woke up the next morning, there were
dug-up catfish carcasses, heads, etc. all over the yard, in the road and
everywhere. We were afraid that the health department was going to descend
on us. (We HONESTLY had buzzards circling over the property!)
Well, awhile after this, cleaned some Tilapia and buried some and had the
same problem again. (Those DAMNED "coons".)
OUT OF THE BLUE, COMES THE SOLUTION. I subscribe to Jerry Bakers magazine
(America's Master Gardner
.I believe.) He said if you have problems with
raccoons, just place some Irish Spring soap around. The "coons" hate it.
Well, I use several of Jerry's concoctions, so I thought I would try this.
NOT ONE RACCOON PROBLEM SINCE. Now, everytime I bury any fish or fish
remains, I always shave some Irish Spring soap on the spot. Works like a
charm!
Steve
. .
| Message 4
Subject: Re: Polystyrene balls as a grow medium
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 07:22:54 +0200
Hi Joel
Thanks for the response, yours being the only positive answer I received.
Polystyrene is commonly used as a filter medium, so I know it will be safe
from an outgasing/pollution point of view. Furthermore, it is very light
and the container used to support the grow bed can therefore be a less
expensive construction than if a heavy medium such as gravel were used. Due
to the lightness cleaning will also be simplified.
Two negatives answers I got related to:
1. it will blow around in the air circulation required by the plants. As a
fish man I cannot comment other than to say I would be very surprised if the
plants needed such strong air circulation as to blow the polystyrene around.
Once wet the balls will also tend to adhere to each other, increased by the
algae growing on them.
2. the polystyrene balls will float during the flooding cycle. I had not
realised that flooding filled the entire bed. I understood that flooding
was a watering cycle, as opposed to an alternate dry cycle, and that water
entering the bed during the watering cycle drained off simultaneously. In
this case there would not be a body of water collecting below the bed that
would cause the polystyrene medium to rise (unless the outlet pipe blocked).
Do you have comments on these opinions?
Thanks,
Leslie
> medium?
>
> None that I know of. Does it outgas (does it smell if you had a bag of
it)?
> If not and you can get a lot of it for free or cheap I'd use it.
. .
| Message 5
Subject: Re: Need help with Feed!
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 01:05:58 -0500
To re-emphasize what Bruce just said: I had literal HELL with feed in the
beginning. I was paying almost $50/50# bag. I was then sent some info from
Davey, I believe, on the list about Purina Aquamax. (I believe I said
"Aquamix" in an earlier post.) I was then able to work out through the
Purina rep and my feedstore exactly what I needed. Now, I'm paying
$16.50/50# bag
the same as "junk pond feed". Your Purina rep will work
with you and I'm sure your local feedstore will work with you as well. It
may take a little effort on your part, but it is worth it.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Schreiber"
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: Need help with Feed!
Thomas that might be true but there is not a feed store in the US that
will not order it for you from their suppliers Purena makes and sells
dog,cat ,horse,poultry, catfish,trout etc. so if its on the list that
the store gets the store can order it on the same truck that delivers
the other food at no extra charge.Steve Spring had that problem a while
back. Barring that you can use many livestock foods you mentioned
hamster or rabbit it will work just do not over feed or you will get a
huge bad smelling Alga soupy looking pukey baby shit green sorta rancid
runny Avocado dip sort of thing to enjoy but maybe that's not so bad
because Tilapia Nicotica like it with some aeration of
coarse.
Bruce
. .
| Message 6
Subject: shocking
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 01:28:48 -0500
Hi Gang,
I believe I asked this before and didn't get a lot of response, so I'm going
to ask again.
Do any of you gurus out there have any expertise in electrical shocking of
ponds? I have a bunch of "crap" fish that I want to get rid of, but I don't
want to poison the pond due to all of the other life in there. I figure that
if I shock and "stun" the fish, I can get out what I don't want and the rest
will recover. I don't have any idea about what I'm talking so any help would
be appreciated. My pond is very small
.maybe 1/4 - 1/3 acre.
Bruce & I tried a battery charger. Well, that didn't work. Talk about the
dumb leading the dumber. Good thing we didn't kill ourselves. (I wanted to
try using house current, but Bruce didn't think that was such a good idea.
Heh
.Heh!!!)
Thanks
.Steve
. .
| Message 7
Subject: Re: Polystyrene balls as a grow medium
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 02:43:19 -0500
The issue of lightness is not so much blowing away due to air
circulation, although the top layers could dry out between irrigation
cycles due to regular fans. Perhaps if you are spraying with a mister
or power blower of some sort this could definitely be a problem. The
"fly-away" is more related to routine handling during cultivation,
harvesting and bed clearing. I cannot imagine pulling a lettuce plant
out by the roots without having a lot of it wind up all over the
greenhouse floor.
I suggest if you are seriously thinking of this option that you do a
small growing trial, running the full cycle of seeding, transplanting,
harvesting and bed clearing. Then multiply the headache out to
3,000-6,000 sq. ft if you're planning to go commercial.
> Two negatives answers I got related to:
> 1. it will blow around in the air circulation required by the
plants. As a
> fish man I cannot comment other than to say I would be very
surprised if the
> plants needed such strong air circulation as to blow the polystyrene
around.
They will adhere to each other enough to cling to roots, then fall off
onto the floor.
> Once wet the balls will also tend to adhere to each other, increased
by the
> algae growing on them.
Adriana Gutierrez
. .
| Message 8
Subject: Website
.finally.
From: dreadlox
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:23:17 -0700
Ok folks
. here goes.
Jim has posted an unedited copy of the links as an ARCHIVE at his
site, the updated version of which can be found at
(no real sweat as
Jim and I have been here for a long time. We will share updates, so that
the site is kept up to date. The site I have been going on about is
.)
http://aquaponics.20megsfree.com
Id like us in time to do a FAQ page, and maybe a few pages where
everyone can intro their system. On the contact page, those with
businesses they would like represented
please send your business
contacts.
I was also thinking if folks wanted to write a page on a particular item
which keeps occuring, (Growbed/fish ratios
??) then that is also
welcome.
Thanks to ALL who sent me bookmarks and encouragement, Thanks to all the
guys and girls who previewed and made comments
.at this hour of the
morning I wouldnt evn try to start to thank people. I think I'd have
Grammy Award forgetfullness syndrome
.lol.
Special Thanks for the RAPID RESPONSE from Jim last week despite
his VERY BUSY SCHEDULE, without whom this wouldnt have been done so
swiftly. He is resposible for coding the page with the bookmarks REALLY
fast!!! (Thanks MUCH JIM!!) Thanks also to all of you who contacted me
last week in response to helping, and whom for the most part in my haste
I have not replied to
I would still like someone versed in web juggling to co-host the site
and help sort the bookmarks, and tag them with names more relevant to
what they are.
Heres hoping this will be a lasting help, and a start to something.
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 9
Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 03:50:44 -0500
Yet another reason water recovery is so important.
Arlos
-----
Arlos,
That's a good article (frightening though). It's one of the reasons
I am in the process of planning cistern system. Mike sent a link the
other day that led to lots of good info.
http://www.rdrop.com/users/krishna/rainwatr.htm
The Texas guide to rainwater harvesting mentioned on that page is a
66 page pdf file that I printed too
good info.
Mark
. .
| Message 10
Subject: RE: shocking
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 04:18:52 -0500
I believe I asked this before and didn't get a lot of response, so I'm going
to ask again.
Do any of you gurus out there have any expertise in electrical shocking of
ponds?
--
Steve,
I did a quick search and couldn't find any "how-to" info. I did find a
course offered by the US fish and wildlife service aimed mostly at
biologists http://www.epa.gov/owow/watershed/wacademy/training/fis2101.html
The contact person there or your state aquaculture extension agent may be
able to help. Most of the info I saw was on using it for surveys rather
than clearing a pond of junk fish. In some states, shocking ponds is
illegal. The usual electrical safety applies. If no one here can help,
I would try the state extension agent I gave you the link for.
good luck,
mark
. .
| Message 11
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.From: dreadlox
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 04:20:22 -0700
Mark Allen Wells wrote:
>
> Yet another reason water recovery is so important.
>
> Arlos
> -----
>
> Arlos,
>
> That's a good article (frightening though). It's one of the reasons
> I am in the process of planning cistern system. Mike sent a link the
> other day that led to lots of good info.
>
> http://www.rdrop.com/users/krishna/rainwatr.htm
>
> The Texas guide to rainwater harvesting mentioned on that page is a
> 66 page pdf file that I printed too
good info.
>
> Mark
--
Mark didnt know you were into this, I will try and post some pics
shortly. I use 1000 gals from my roof for my aquatic tanks!
My fish and lobsters seem to thrive in this soft water!
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 12
Subject: Re: shocking
From: dreadlox
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 04:25:20 -0700
Mark Allen Wells wrote:
>
> I believe I asked this before and didn't get a lot of response, so I'm going
> to ask again.
>
> Do any of you gurus out there have any expertise in electrical shocking of
> ponds?
> --
Steve ma bro :>,
Someone asked this question on the tilapia list a while back and went
into some specifics about water parameters.
They didnt get too many replies either. I was looking for their addy so
U could ask them if the had any sucess. They were using the technology
to harvest their hiding eels
Maybe someone is better/faster than I at finding that mail?? They
mention something with low voltage but like 5-6 amps if I recall
correctly. By low I meant something like 50V.
Just from memory tho.
Hmmm
Ill see what turns up.
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 13
Subject: RE: Website
.finally.
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 04:51:28 -0500
Hey
.great job guys!
Be it ever so humble
.there's no place like home
.LOL>
Some of the pics were beautiful (not the maggotry
LOL).
I can see this growing into a great resource. I look forward
to it.
Mark
. .
| Message 14
Subject: RE: A lurker's hello
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 06:50:13 -0500
Hey Mick.
glad ya decided to step out of the barn and say hello.
I lurked for about 2 days
.LOL. I have a hard time
keeping my mouth shut. Just kidding
.I drifted around
the net for quite a while reading everything I could
find until I found this list. It's great to be able
to get feedback from others
.share experiences. If
Ted and Bruce are around it can even be entertaining
.LOL.
In the short time I have been here, I have learned more
than I did in the entire previous year and made some great
friends.
I can relate to the raccoons. My friend Tessa used to laugh
at the "cute little bandits" trying to get into her trash can.
Then one day the water level in her backyard koi pond got a
little bit low
.now the raccoons are "ugly little murderers"
.LOL>
don't be a stranger,
mark
. .
| Message 15
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.From: "Arlos"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 08:05:24 -0700
Mark,
Great article on cisterns in an urban environment. I'm suprise they were
permitted to have this system for whole house but glad to see a municipality
come to it's senses. Rain water is one resource that has become little used
in recent years. Good prices but the PURA UV (depending on model) should
have a flow switch and hour meter I went through the PURA factory just as
HYDROTECH had purchased them. Less expensive UV models have a thin 304
stainless shield inside a PVC housing where a quality UV will be constructed
from 316 stainless and should be electro-polished. Self cleaning brushes
are a joke as the brush is made from p.e. and you end up with a pile of frog
eyelashes in a filter over a years time. the quartz sleeve has to be cleaned
on a regular basis due to dissolved minerals perculating onto the
sleeve.Trojan makes a good UV system rated at 14 GPM. I tend to stay with
Atlantic UV for most industrial applications. You might consider a small
ozone recirc system to keep the water in the tank clean. In a 1,200 tank
with a 6 GPM pump and ozone production (corona discharge) around 2 grams per
hour, you could dose just about anything that would introduce its self in
the water column and keep the water pristine. UV only produces ozone
measured in ppm. Municipalities have been gun shy about alternative
sanitation as they use the AWWA standards for trace or free cholomines.
Ozone doesn't have much of a half live and is hard to detect without a
fairly pricey piece of hardware. Europeans have jumped on UV technology like
a hobo on a ham sandwich in recent years. We're a little behind in
application. Correctly applied and dosed, nothing gets past it. This is
where chlorine fails. Chlorine is great on bacteria but virtually useless
on virus.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Allen Wells
To: Aquaponics
Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 1:50 AM
Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.
>Yet another reason water recovery is so important.
>
>Arlos
>-----
>
>Arlos,
>
>That's a good article (frightening though). It's one of the reasons
>I am in the process of planning cistern system. Mike sent a link the
>other day that led to lots of good info.
>
>http://www.rdrop.com/users/krishna/rainwatr.htm
>
>The Texas guide to rainwater harvesting mentioned on that page is a
>66 page pdf file that I printed too
good info.
>
>Mark
>
. .
| Message 16
Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:40:48 -0500
hey Arlos,
Thanks for the tips on UV and ozone. I added your
post to my "water notes". I thought you would like that article.
It went well beyond the usual rainbarrel setup. You answered
the questions that popped into my mind when I read it.
Rainwater harvesting is starting to catch on here and
I think will continue to expand due to the reasons mentioned
in the article you shared. In many places of the world, it
is their primary source of freshwater. We've come a long
way since the backyard cistern of the old days. We have the
technology today to keep it sanitized at a reasonable cost,
recirculate it, prevent backflow, etc.
My system was going to remain separate, but after reading
about the guy using it for washing clothes (which the soft water
is much better for) I may look into combining them. The article
was yet another example of the regs involved in doing ANYTHING
these days
.but they made it happen.
Mark
. .
| Message 17
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.From: "F.Carl Uhland"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:56:37 -0400
Howdy all,
Just a quick correction on chlorine. At concentrations of 500 - 1000ppm it=
=20
is effective on most lipohphilic (enveloped) and hydrophilic viruses and=20
bacteria. It is a recommended general disinfectant in hospitals (ex. AIDs=
=20
virus, hepatitis etc.). Among its disadvantage, it does have some trouble=
=20
if there is alot of organic material in the water, so dosing must be made=20
accordingly, it can be corrosive to metals and other materials, and has a=20
nasty habit of producing toxic fumes if mixed with certain detergents.
Carl
At 08:05 13-08-01 -0700, you wrote:
>Mark,
>
> Great article on cisterns in an urban environment. I'm suprise they were
>permitted to have this system for whole house but glad to see a=
municipality
>come to it's senses. Rain water is one resource that has become little used
>in recent years. Good prices but the PURA UV (depending on model) should
>have a flow switch and hour meter I went through the PURA factory just as
>HYDROTECH had purchased them. Less expensive UV models have a thin 304
>stainless shield inside a PVC housing where a quality UV will be=
constructed
>from 316 stainless and should be electro-polished. Self cleaning brushes
>are a joke as the brush is made from p.e. and you end up with a pile of=
frog
>eyelashes in a filter over a years time. the quartz sleeve has to be=
cleaned
>on a regular basis due to dissolved minerals perculating onto the
>sleeve.Trojan makes a good UV system rated at 14 GPM. I tend to stay with
>Atlantic UV for most industrial applications. You might consider a small
>ozone recirc system to keep the water in the tank clean. In a 1,200 tank
>with a 6 GPM pump and ozone production (corona discharge) around 2 grams=
per
>hour, you could dose just about anything that would introduce its self in
>the water column and keep the water pristine. UV only produces ozone
>measured in ppm. Municipalities have been gun shy about alternative
>sanitation as they use the AWWA standards for trace or free cholomines.
>Ozone doesn't have much of a half live and is hard to detect without a
>fairly pricey piece of hardware. Europeans have jumped on UV technology=
like
>a hobo on a ham sandwich in recent years. We're a little behind in
>application. Correctly applied and dosed, nothing gets past it. This is
>where chlorine fails. Chlorine is great on bacteria but virtually useless
>on virus.
>
>Arlos
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Allen Wells
>To: Aquaponics
>Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 1:50 AM
>Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.>
>
> >Yet another reason water recovery is so important.
> >
> >Arlos
> >-----
> >
> >Arlos,
> >
> >That's a good article (frightening though). It's one of the reasons
> >I am in the process of planning cistern system. Mike sent a link the
> >other day that led to lots of good info.
> >
> >http://www.rdrop.com/users/krishna/rainwatr.htm
> >
> >The Texas guide to rainwater harvesting mentioned on that page is a
> >66 page pdf file that I printed too
good info.
> >
> >Mark
> >
F. Carl Uhland, DVM
Facult=E9 M=E9decine V=E9t=E9rinaire
University of Montreal
3200 rue Sicotte
Saint-Hyacinthe (Qu=E9bec) J2S 7C6
T=E9l: 450-773-8521; ext: 8317
Fax: 450-778-8116
Carl.F.Uhland 'at' umontreal.ca
. .
| Message 18
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:51:16 -0500
Another source of water are air conditioners. I found out just how
much water is pulled out of a house when the line from the water pump
to the outside of a newly installed AC system sprung a leak. It
pumped out about 2-3 gallons in two hours, under enough pressure to
spray half the basement. Over the course of 24 hours you should be
able to accumulate 30-50 gallons, day in and day out during the AC
season, depending on the size of the house. Think of what commercial
and retail buildings pump out.
> Rainwater harvesting is starting to catch on here and
> I think will continue to expand due to the reasons mentioned
> in the article you shared.
Adriana
. .
| Message 19
Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:00:15 -0500
Among its disadvantage, it does have some trouble if there is alot
of organic material in the water, so dosing must be made
accordingly,
----
Hi Carl,
Thanks for the input. I understand about the problems with organic
materials. We still pull our water from deep wells but cities near
here like Indianapolis that pull from reservoirs have switched to
chloramine to try and keep their trihalomethane numbers down (too much
organic material in the water for chlorine).
Ozone offers greater protection from cysts such as cryptosporidium (which
killed over 100 and left 1000's sick in Milwaukee, Wis. in '93). It also
kills e.coli much quicker. It doesn't have a long life but that isn't
a factor in a recirculating system like I want to create. I think
you will see more hospitals going to it. I read a recent article about
a hospital installing an ozone system in their laundry. I think it
will be more widespread as older chlorine equipment wears out and needs
replaced.
Mark
. .
| Message 20
Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:07:21 -0500
Another source of water are air conditioners.
----
Funny you should mention this, Adriana. This time of year
in Indiana, my dehumidifier in the basement runs almost
non stop. I have to empty it daily. Even if we go without
rain for a while, the humidity is usually pretty high.
Mark
. .
| Message 21
Subject: Re: Polystyrene balls as a grow medium
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:05:47 +0200
Point taken about the balls adhering to the roots. Thanks Adriana.
> > 1. it will blow around in the air circulation required by the
> plants. As a
> > fish man I cannot comment other than to say I would be very
> surprised if the
> > plants needed such strong air circulation as to blow the polystyrene
> around.
>
> They will adhere to each other enough to cling to roots, then fall off
> onto the floor.
. .
| Message 22
Subject: Re: A lurker's hello
From: Mick
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:11:48 -0500
S & S Aqua Farm wrote:
> We've had good luck with bush beans, Mick, but have never tried pole beans.
> I don't know why they would be different in their growth needs, necessarily.
> Our best seller at the farmers market (after a bit of sampling and
> education) was French fillet beans, which are definitely a good alternative
> for those looking for something different from (locally available) green
> beans. I was very pleased with their production. We also have grown an
> "Asian green bean",
Thanks, Paula, I'll try and find seeds for both. Whether we ever sell any
vegetables or not, I'm trying to grow vegetables that we like to eat first.
Tomatoes and green beans are some of our favorites. Your info about the Asian
green bean gave me great hope that I'll be able to raise beans when I find the
right strains.
Mick
. .
| Message 23
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.From: "Arlos"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:21:10 -0700
Since municipalities look for trace amounts at 1 ppm at the POE or point of
entry, 500-1000ppm would just about kill a horse not to mention eat right
through metal piping especially if dosed as a gas. It would create holes at
cavitiies in valves and pumps. Hospitals are another matter altogether.
Dosing times for contact and retention for virus are difficult to achieve
and to remain constant as noted in Wisconsin a few years ago. Formation of
Trihalomethanes are problematic with the presense of tannic acid, iron and
sulfur reducing bacteria.
Sanitation on new potable loops require 3-10 ppm and then require disposal
via contact in a carbon bed or hauling. That is why I used the term, "
virtually useless" when using virus and chlorine.
Household cleansers are a whole thread unto themselves. Mold sprays,
toilet cleaners like "1000 flushes" discharges extremely high amounts of
chlorine's from sodium hydroxide. combining this with 100's of other
chemicals in the waste stream is something Mark could talk about for weeks.
Mr. Clean should be arrested for polluting along with the Brawny guy on
general purposes. Room deodorizers should be banned altogether as they only
numb the nasal membranes and do absolutely nothing to remove odors. I wonder
how many cases of asthma or chemical allergies have been generated due to
the use of these. If anyone remembers in the early sixties the absurd ad
campaigns to promote the use of aerosols to remove the offensive scent of
cooking garlic in the air which I'm more or less convinced was a rather
indirect blow against those of mediterean and latin american descent.
Undoubtly there is a common thread here for use of medication in the water
loop and use of cleansers and sanitizers when cleaning out a raceway after a
season.
Arlos
----
From: F.Carl Uhland
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.
Howdy all,
Just a quick correction on chlorine. At concentrations of 500 - 1000ppm it
is effective on most lipohphilic (enveloped) and hydrophilic viruses and
bacteria. It is a recommended general disinfectant in hospitals (ex. AIDs
virus, hepatitis etc.). Among its disadvantage, it does have some trouble
if there is alot of organic material in the water, so dosing must be made
accordingly, it can be corrosive to metals and other materials, and has a
nasty habit of producing toxic fumes if mixed with certain detergents.
Carl
At 08:05 13-08-01 -0700, you wrote:
>Mark,
>
> Great article on cisterns in an urban environment. I'm suprise they were
>permitted to have this system for whole house but glad to see a
municipality
>come to it's senses. Rain water is one resource that has become little used
>in recent years. Good prices but the PURA UV (depending on model) should
>have a flow switch and hour meter I went through the PURA factory just as
>HYDROTECH had purchased them. Less expensive UV models have a thin 304
>stainless shield inside a PVC housing where a quality UV will be
constructed
>from 316 stainless and should be electro-polished. Self cleaning brushes
>are a joke as the brush is made from p.e. and you end up with a pile of
frog
>eyelashes in a filter over a years time. the quartz sleeve has to be
cleaned
>on a regular basis due to dissolved minerals perculating onto the
>sleeve.Trojan makes a good UV system rated at 14 GPM. I tend to stay with
>Atlantic UV for most industrial applications. You might consider a small
>ozone recirc system to keep the water in the tank clean. In a 1,200 tank
>with a 6 GPM pump and ozone production (corona discharge) around 2 grams
per
>hour, you could dose just about anything that would introduce its self in
>the water column and keep the water pristine. UV only produces ozone
>measured in ppm. Municipalities have been gun shy about alternative
>sanitation as they use the AWWA standards for trace or free cholomines.
>Ozone doesn't have much of a half live and is hard to detect without a
>fairly pricey piece of hardware. Europeans have jumped on UV technology
like
>a hobo on a ham sandwich in recent years. We're a little behind in
>application. Correctly applied and dosed, nothing gets past it. This is
>where chlorine fails. Chlorine is great on bacteria but virtually useless
>on virus.
>
>Arlos
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Allen Wells
>To: Aquaponics
>Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 1:50 AM
>Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.>
>
> >Yet another reason water recovery is so important.
> >
> >Arlos
> >-----
> >
> >Arlos,
> >
> >That's a good article (frightening though). It's one of the reasons
> >I am in the process of planning cistern system. Mike sent a link the
> >other day that led to lots of good info.
> >
> >http://www.rdrop.com/users/krishna/rainwatr.htm
> >
> >The Texas guide to rainwater harvesting mentioned on that page is a
> >66 page pdf file that I printed too
good info.
> >
> >Mark
> >
F. Carl Uhland, DVM
Faculté Médecine Vétérinaire
University of Montreal
3200 rue Sicotte
Saint-Hyacinthe (Québec) J2S 7C6
Tél: 450-773-8521; ext: 8317
Fax: 450-778-8116
Carl.F.Uhland 'at' umontreal.ca
. .
| Message 24
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.From: "Arlos"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 10:24:02 -0700
The water (condensate) from an airconditioner (HVAC) is highly acidic and
generally requires being sent to waste treatment in the electronics
industry. I wouldn't try and collect it for reuse.
-----Original Message-----
From: gutierrez-lagatta
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.
>Another source of water are air conditioners. I found out just how
>much water is pulled out of a house when the line from the water pump
>to the outside of a newly installed AC system sprung a leak. It
>pumped out about 2-3 gallons in two hours, under enough pressure to
>spray half the basement. Over the course of 24 hours you should be
>able to accumulate 30-50 gallons, day in and day out during the AC
>season, depending on the size of the house. Think of what commercial
>and retail buildings pump out.
>> Rainwater harvesting is starting to catch on here and
>> I think will continue to expand due to the reasons mentioned
>> in the article you shared.
>
>Adriana
>
>
. .
| Message 25
Subject: Re: A lurker's hello
From: Mick
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:31:53 -0500
Chris Jeppesen wrote:
> Mick
> Is the water flow to your grow bed continuous? Would an on-off cycle help the beans?
Yes, the flow is continuous and will be until I add another plant tray online. I'm
walking a line between keeping the fish water filtered and having enough nutrients in
the water to keep healthy plants. The permits required here in Texas are based on zero
discharge of effluent water (at least the permits that I obtained are). So we aren't
draining and replacing any of the water in the fish tanks and our filtering system has
to handle the entire load.
When we first started up, we had a bio-filter and a plant tray. As the bio-filter
matured, the return water had zero levels of ammonia and nitrite but the plants weren't
getting enough nutrients. As more plants reach a maturity level with a root system
capable of cleaning the water, we are gradually reducing the flow to the bio-filter
until it isn't needed at all. The gravel is also aging and developing it's own
filtering bacteria and algae. As it all matures, we'll add another plant tray and plant
vegetables that don't require such a rich nutrient base to draw from. Lettuce and the
like.
With approx. four hundred fish in the tank, the flow has to be constant
at least until
we're further along with the design.
Mick
>
>
>
>
. .
| Message 26
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.From: "Arlos"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:07:59 -0700
Mark,
In cooling towers using equipment like "Baltimore Aircoil" Legionella
(sick building syndrome) is rampant and chlorine has been used in an attempt
to control it. and failed. A scale, exopolysacchride is formed
(composition is calcite) by bacteria, virus or both and remains safe from
chlorine and acids trying to control the scale formation which coats all of
the wetted surfaces (baffles) and minimizes the effectiveness of the wetted
surfaces to exchange heat. it amazes me to see service companies
jackhammering the inside of cooling towers (the scale is as tough as
concrete) while legionella is so rampant in almost all of the towers. Ozone
has been marginally successful in controlling this but using a frequency
generator to convert the calcite to aragonite breaks down the
exopolysacchride so ozone can zap to bugs inside and significantly reduce
maintenance costs
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Allen Wells
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:00 AM
Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.
>Among its disadvantage, it does have some trouble if there is alot
>of organic material in the water, so dosing must be made
>accordingly,
>
>----
>
>Hi Carl,
>
>Thanks for the input. I understand about the problems with organic
>materials. We still pull our water from deep wells but cities near
>here like Indianapolis that pull from reservoirs have switched to
>chloramine to try and keep their trihalomethane numbers down (too much
>organic material in the water for chlorine).
>
>Ozone offers greater protection from cysts such as cryptosporidium (which
>killed over 100 and left 1000's sick in Milwaukee, Wis. in '93). It also
>kills e.coli much quicker. It doesn't have a long life but that isn't
>a factor in a recirculating system like I want to create. I think
>you will see more hospitals going to it. I read a recent article about
>a hospital installing an ozone system in their laundry. I think it
>will be more widespread as older chlorine equipment wears out and needs
>replaced.
>
>Mark
>
>
. .
| Message 27
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.From: "Arlos"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:43:19 -0700
Mark,
Another note on Ozone use. Rule of thumb (origin of that word is from
English where it was not permissible to whip your wife with anything larger
is diameter than your thumb, {that should really get a thread going]): The
cooler the water the more effect ozone is. Hot water destroys ozone, hense
my earlier post on heat destruction of off gas. Its going to take some good
engineering to reduce the temp needs in hospital laundry facilities and use
ozone. Direct injection into machines might be possible but all wetted
sufaces would have to be ozone resistant. Some crafty snake oil salesman
came up with a product called "Bioballs" which contain magnets inside and do
nothing. It was suppose to have eliminated the need for laundry detergent.
Considering most people have never even had high school chemistry, it had
been an easy sell, for a while. It's appeared several times in the past ten
years.The chemical industry is going to resist this (ozone as a sanitizer)at
all costs for the obvious reason, it can be produced as needed on site at
less cost than other chemicals and leaves no residue. Same reason we're all
looking to create a chemical free ( no more than what fish provide)
aquaponics system. Chemicals work wonders in the right application and
Monsanto would like us to still believe "Better Living through Chemistry".
We're just beginning to question when is enough, enough. Who'd ever thought
we could recycle plastic bottles into socks, toasters into Toyotas. Of
course we don't recycle our socks into bottles, yet.
There have been some great articles from the group here and all have had
some relevance to aquaponics in the greater picture. looking forward to
seeing many more
I'm talking to a publisher in Santa Barbara in a week
about the hidden side of wasted water in California (residential uses about
1% of available potable water) ag and industry use the rest yet water is
being squeezed away from people under the need to conserve) Industry has
little restriction and with rare instance reuse's process water. This is
what makes aquaponics so great, the conservation of resources, creating so
much from so little.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Allen Wells
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:00 AM
Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.
>Among its disadvantage, it does have some trouble if there is alot
>of organic material in the water, so dosing must be made
>accordingly,
>
>----
>
>Hi Carl,
>
>Thanks for the input. I understand about the problems with organic
>materials. We still pull our water from deep wells but cities near
>here like Indianapolis that pull from reservoirs have switched to
>chloramine to try and keep their trihalomethane numbers down (too much
>organic material in the water for chlorine).
>
>Ozone offers greater protection from cysts such as cryptosporidium (which
>killed over 100 and left 1000's sick in Milwaukee, Wis. in '93). It also
>kills e.coli much quicker. It doesn't have a long life but that isn't
>a factor in a recirculating system like I want to create. I think
>you will see more hospitals going to it. I read a recent article about
>a hospital installing an ozone system in their laundry. I think it
>will be more widespread as older chlorine equipment wears out and needs
>replaced.
>
>Mark
>
>
. .
| Message 28
Subject: Seeding a Biofilter
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:13:20 -0500
Hello,
If you were starting a new biofilter in a remote location, where would
you obtain the nitrosomas and other bacterias necessary to get the
biofilter working? Does anyone have a favorite commercial source for
buying a starter culture?
Carolyn
. .
| Message 29
Subject: Re: Seeding a Biofilter
From: Mick
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:40:18 -0500
Carolyn Hoagland wrote:
> If you were starting a new biofilter in a remote location, where would
> you obtain the nitrosomas and other bacterias necessary to get the
> biofilter working?
Carolyn,
We used Stress Zyme made by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc. It has 100
million live bacteria per teaspoonful of the product. All the aquarium
specialty stores carry it locally and I assume you could order it on the
net, although we haven't tried. We used it for start up bio-filters and
haven't had to use it after the filter starts converting. Our largest
bio-filter has bio-balls. The store we purchased them from claimed they
were infused with beneficial bacteria. I doubt that claim but we use them
for the extra growing area for the bacteria supplied in Stress Zyme.
It took a week to ten days before our bio-filters started converting using
the Stress Zyme instead of the six weeks it can take without it. One
bottle will be plenty for up to 960 gallons of water and costs around
sixteen dollars.
Hope this helps,
Mick
. .
| Message 30
Subject: Re: Seeding a Biofilter
From: dreadlox
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 17:20:02 -0700
Carolyn Hoagland wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> If you were starting a new biofilter in a remote location, where would
> you obtain the nitrosomas and other bacterias necessary to get the
> biofilter working? Does anyone have a favorite commercial source for
> buying a starter culture?
>
> Carolyn
--
Carolyn, I dont know what the biofilter is for (swimming hole, fish) but
a visit down to your nearest farmer is fine. Go out on the fields and
get some dried cow "pads" (dung), and pack them in bags and puncture
them so the "Juice" can drip all over your biofilter. Better yet in a
remote area is a visit to the abbatoir and get some stomach juice from a
sheep or cow. I am not joking. Some water from the cowstall washdown
area will seed your biofilter too, or a visit to the nearest sewage
plant, tell them what you are doing and they will give you some
"activated sludge". Thats four options
. man why do I tell all the
secrets??
Commercial concoctions are nothing more than a concentrated brew of the
above bacteria. Dont be fooled.
Save your money. I Do.!! :)
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 31
Subject: RE: tanks and grow beds
From: "Chris Jeppesen"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:17:01 -0700
In my ever widening search for pacu I dug up an old friend I haven't seen in 20 years. He owns
a tropical fish wholesale co. In the old days he used concrete burial vaults for tanks. He now
uses plastic pallet tanks, the kind used in orchards when harvesting apples or cherries. The
thought crossed my mind that ether would work ( at the right price) for tanks or growbeds. Hum.
. .
Chris
. .
| Message 32
Subject: Re: pacu
From: "Chris Jeppesen"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:25:29 -0700
How many types of pacu are there. The ones I got from petsmart and fish2you.com are dark grey
with red bellies. The ones I got from my friend and that they sell in walmart ar a bright
silver with red bellies. Both of thes are called redbellied pacu. Then there are the black
ones. Any one care to expand on this. Are you there Bruce.
Chris
. .
| Message 33
Subject: Seeding a biofilter
From: kris book
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 16:38:08 -0600
Carolyn,
Paula, our list moderator never toots her own horn but, it would be hard
to beat the information package that she and her husband sell. I haven't
spoken to her directly but, people that I've advised to check out their
web site tell me that they send you start up bacteria when you purchase
the info package.
kris book
http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/
http://www.townsqr.com/snsaqua/page3.htm
. .
| Message 34
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:52:33 -0700
We have used a ozone generator at one location for over 5 years. We have
only had to replace the UV tubes one time. It works very well only down side
is the power. It uses a lot of electricity when you consider the water pump
and the tubes. If you put it in a system that already has a pump large
enough to make the ventures pull in fresh air, you can save on power.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arlos"
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.
> Mark,
>
> Another note on Ozone use. Rule of thumb (origin of that word is from
> English where it was not permissible to whip your wife with anything
larger
> is diameter than your thumb, {that should really get a thread going]): The
> cooler the water the more effect ozone is. Hot water destroys ozone, hense
> my earlier post on heat destruction of off gas. Its going to take some
good
> engineering to reduce the temp needs in hospital laundry facilities and
use
> ozone. Direct injection into machines might be possible but all wetted
> sufaces would have to be ozone resistant. Some crafty snake oil salesman
> came up with a product called "Bioballs" which contain magnets inside and
do
> nothing. It was suppose to have eliminated the need for laundry
detergent.
> Considering most people have never even had high school chemistry, it had
> been an easy sell, for a while. It's appeared several times in the past
ten
> years.The chemical industry is going to resist this (ozone as a
sanitizer)at
> all costs for the obvious reason, it can be produced as needed on site at
> less cost than other chemicals and leaves no residue. Same reason we're
all
> looking to create a chemical free ( no more than what fish provide)
> aquaponics system. Chemicals work wonders in the right application and
> Monsanto would like us to still believe "Better Living through Chemistry".
> We're just beginning to question when is enough, enough. Who'd ever
thought
> we could recycle plastic bottles into socks, toasters into Toyotas. Of
> course we don't recycle our socks into bottles, yet.
> There have been some great articles from the group here and all have had
> some relevance to aquaponics in the greater picture. looking forward to
> seeing many more
I'm talking to a publisher in Santa Barbara in a week
> about the hidden side of wasted water in California (residential uses
about
> 1% of available potable water) ag and industry use the rest yet water is
> being squeezed away from people under the need to conserve) Industry has
> little restriction and with rare instance reuse's process water. This is
> what makes aquaponics so great, the conservation of resources, creating so
> much from so little.
>
> Arlos
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Allen Wells
> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:00 AM
> Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.>
>
> >Among its disadvantage, it does have some trouble if there is alot
> >of organic material in the water, so dosing must be made
> >accordingly,
> >
> >----
> >
> >Hi Carl,
> >
> >Thanks for the input. I understand about the problems with organic
> >materials. We still pull our water from deep wells but cities near
> >here like Indianapolis that pull from reservoirs have switched to
> >chloramine to try and keep their trihalomethane numbers down (too much
> >organic material in the water for chlorine).
> >
> >Ozone offers greater protection from cysts such as cryptosporidium (which
> >killed over 100 and left 1000's sick in Milwaukee, Wis. in '93). It also
> >kills e.coli much quicker. It doesn't have a long life but that isn't
> >a factor in a recirculating system like I want to create. I think
> >you will see more hospitals going to it. I read a recent article about
> >a hospital installing an ozone system in their laundry. I think it
> >will be more widespread as older chlorine equipment wears out and needs
> >replaced.
> >
> >Mark
> >
> >
>
>
. .
| Message 35
Subject: AC condensate pH
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:31:52 -0500
I'm curious Arlos, what makes condensate so acidic? The piping in the
AC? Or does environmental humidity tend to e acidic?
> The water (condensate) from an airconditioner (HVAC) is highly
acidic and
> generally requires being sent to waste treatment in the electronics
> industry. I wouldn't try and collect it for reuse.
Adriana
. .
| Message 36
Subject: Re: Seeding a Biofilter
From: Mick
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:44:21 -0500
dreadlox wrote:
> Thats four options
. man why do I tell all the
> secrets??
Because you guys are great! I was wondring if I could use manure. There's
plenty of it on this little ranch. We have shetland ponies. I could add
manure tea to the plant tray if the extra nutrients and/or bacteria are ever
required then?
Thanks Mike!
Mick
. .
| Message 37
Subject: Re: Ref: Lurker's raccoons
From: Mick
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:06:27 -0500
STEVE SPRING wrote:
> Hi Gang,
>
> In reference to Mickey's problem with the raccoons. He said if you have
> problems with
> raccoons, just place some Irish Spring soap around. The "coons" hate it.
> Well, I use several of Jerry's concoctions, so I thought I would try this.
> NOT ONE RACCOON PROBLEM SINCE. Now, everytime I bury any fish or fish
> remains, I always shave some Irish Spring soap on the spot. Works like a
> charm!
>
> Steve
That's handy info, Steve. I heard moth balls are a repellant too. I'll try
them both, thanks.
We had a truce with the raccoons. They left my chickens alone if I left cat
food and chicken food out for them to eat. It worked for a year. No chickens
killed and no hooliganism. Then, I left a bag of fish food where they could get
at it. One taste and they wanted more. When I put the fish food in a
tamper-proof metal container, the raccoons broke into the barn and caused all
that havoc with my aquaponics system. They also killed half my chickens the
next night. So now it's WAR even though they're too cute to shoot. Maybe I'll
soap 'em away.
Mick
. .
| Message 38
Subject: Re: Ref: Lurker's raccoons
From: Jim
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:21:47 -0500
That's why my dogs live in the greenhouses
Beagles are the best
raccoon repellent I know
and they're easier to keep out of the fish
feed, although Doc (the old man of the pack) has been known to feast
when given half a chance
Speaking of home remedies, I recently had an ant infestation, and chased
'em off the property with dilute apple vinegar
Lots of good in the old
ways
Jim
Mick wrote:
>
>
> That's handy info, Steve. I heard moth balls are a repellant too. I'll try
> them both, thanks.
>
> We had a truce with the raccoons. They left my chickens alone if I left cat
> food and chicken food out for them to eat. It worked for a year. No chickens
> killed and no hooliganism. Then, I left a bag of fish food where they could get
> at it. One taste and they wanted more. When I put the fish food in a
> tamper-proof metal container, the raccoons broke into the barn and caused all
> that havoc with my aquaponics system. They also killed half my chickens the
> next night. So now it's WAR even though they're too cute to shoot. Maybe I'll
> soap 'em away.
>
> Mick
. .
| Message 39
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.From: "Arlos"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:07:20 -0700
Brent,
UV lamps have a rated life based on hours of use and they degrade from the
first hour on. that is why an hour counter can be an important tool. A
company in Campbell, CA by the name of "Triple O" sells a UV lamp that
pushes ambient air through using a very small diaphragm pump and that air is
set inside a large filter housing. Their literature makes a lot of
statements about the use of Ozone but never directly makes any performance
claims directly about their own equipment. UV performance is measured by
plate counts of bacteria and wavelength measurement of the tubes. Nothing
against them but I have an opinion I'd rather not state on a semi public
post. Manufactures have done their homework and know the service life of the
lamps which makes an hour counter a cheap tool to use for maintenance and
service. running air through a wet UV via an eductor may produce little or
negligible amounts of ozone. An UV lamp may continue to give off
light but may not be effective any longer. Fluorescent lights produce ozone
(minimally). There are data charts to calculate dosage. Contamination
of<2ppm can be treated with UV, anymore than that should be treated with
ozone generated by a corona discharge generator. Beyond that, dosage is
based on contact and retention time, flow, temp and grams converted to
milligrams per liter. (If anyone wants a full chart for calculating ozone
dosage, raise your hands and I'll mime 'ogragh a copy for ya and post it).
If the quartz sleeve or the water is not clean, contaminates are like hiding
behind a tree for protection from sunlight. There is a minimum amount of
flocculation taking place which is like popcorn being popped to allow
contaminates to bond to one another or other materials to become large or
heavy enough to filter or drop out of the water column. Like taking a stroll
through a cotton field wearing a Velcro leisure suit. Ozone on the other
hand is an equal opportunity oxidizer it doesn't care if the water is cloudy
or full of algae, everyone gets dosed.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Bingham
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.
>We have used a ozone generator at one location for over 5 years. We have
>only had to replace the UV tubes one time. It works very well only down
side
>is the power. It uses a lot of electricity when you consider the water pump
>and the tubes. If you put it in a system that already has a pump large
>enough to make the ventures pull in fresh air, you can save on power.
>Brent
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Arlos"
>
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 12:43 PM
>Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.>
>
>> Mark,
>>
>> Another note on Ozone use. Rule of thumb (origin of that word is from
>> English where it was not permissible to whip your wife with anything
>larger
>> is diameter than your thumb, {that should really get a thread going]):
The
>> cooler the water the more effect ozone is. Hot water destroys ozone,
hense
>> my earlier post on heat destruction of off gas. Its going to take some
>good
>> engineering to reduce the temp needs in hospital laundry facilities and
>use
>> ozone. Direct injection into machines might be possible but all wetted
>> sufaces would have to be ozone resistant. Some crafty snake oil salesman
>> came up with a product called "Bioballs" which contain magnets inside and
>do
>> nothing. It was suppose to have eliminated the need for laundry
>detergent.
>> Considering most people have never even had high school chemistry, it had
>> been an easy sell, for a while. It's appeared several times in the past
>ten
>> years.The chemical industry is going to resist this (ozone as a
>sanitizer)at
>> all costs for the obvious reason, it can be produced as needed on site at
>> less cost than other chemicals and leaves no residue. Same reason we're
>all
>> looking to create a chemical free ( no more than what fish provide)
>> aquaponics system. Chemicals work wonders in the right application and
>> Monsanto would like us to still believe "Better Living through
Chemistry".
>> We're just beginning to question when is enough, enough. Who'd ever
>thought
>> we could recycle plastic bottles into socks, toasters into Toyotas. Of
>> course we don't recycle our socks into bottles, yet.
>> There have been some great articles from the group here and all have
had
>> some relevance to aquaponics in the greater picture. looking forward to
>> seeing many more
I'm talking to a publisher in Santa Barbara in a week
>> about the hidden side of wasted water in California (residential uses
>about
>> 1% of available potable water) ag and industry use the rest yet water is
>> being squeezed away from people under the need to conserve) Industry has
>> little restriction and with rare instance reuse's process water. This is
>> what makes aquaponics so great, the conservation of resources, creating
so
>> much from so little.
>>
>> Arlos
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mark Allen Wells
>> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>> Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:00 AM
>> Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.>>
>>
>> >Among its disadvantage, it does have some trouble if there is alot
>> >of organic material in the water, so dosing must be made
>> >accordingly,
>> >
>> >----
>> >
>> >Hi Carl,
>> >
>> >Thanks for the input. I understand about the problems with organic
>> >materials. We still pull our water from deep wells but cities near
>> >here like Indianapolis that pull from reservoirs have switched to
>> >chloramine to try and keep their trihalomethane numbers down (too much
>> >organic material in the water for chlorine).
>> >
>> >Ozone offers greater protection from cysts such as cryptosporidium
(which
>> >killed over 100 and left 1000's sick in Milwaukee, Wis. in '93). It also
>> >kills e.coli much quicker. It doesn't have a long life but that isn't
>> >a factor in a recirculating system like I want to create. I think
>> >you will see more hospitals going to it. I read a recent article about
>> >a hospital installing an ozone system in their laundry. I think it
>> >will be more widespread as older chlorine equipment wears out and needs
>> >replaced.
>> >
>> >Mark
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
. .
| Message 40
Subject: Re: Ref: Lurker's raccoons
From: "Arlos"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 18:20:26 -0700
CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG
. LOL next thing you know, they'll get their
grubby little hands on our pin numbers. they've managed to open almost every
latch I've put on the garbage barn, cat door, cupboards. they get used to
motion detector lights, sprayers and radios. Only thing that gets them back
on their side of the fence is my Springer, Louie. They haven't bothered my
abalone but they do forage for anything they can put out of or off the rocks
at all tide levels at the ocean. Blue Herons and snowy Egrets are another
big problem here Pretty to look at even though they help themselves to
everyone's Koi, net or no net but unfortunately you can't use 'em for
weather stripping in the winter.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mick
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Ref: Lurker's raccoons
>
>
>STEVE SPRING wrote:
>
>> Hi Gang,
>>
>> In reference to Mickey's problem with the raccoons. He said if you have
>> problems with
>> raccoons, just place some Irish Spring soap around. The "coons" hate it.
>> Well, I use several of Jerry's concoctions, so I thought I would try
this.
>> NOT ONE RACCOON PROBLEM SINCE. Now, everytime I bury any fish or fish
>> remains, I always shave some Irish Spring soap on the spot. Works like a
>> charm!
>>
>> Steve
>
>That's handy info, Steve. I heard moth balls are a repellant too. I'll
try
>them both, thanks.
>
>We had a truce with the raccoons. They left my chickens alone if I left
cat
>food and chicken food out for them to eat. It worked for a year. No
chickens
>killed and no hooliganism. Then, I left a bag of fish food where they
could get
>at it. One taste and they wanted more. When I put the fish food in a
>tamper-proof metal container, the raccoons broke into the barn and caused
all
>that havoc with my aquaponics system. They also killed half my chickens
the
>next night. So now it's WAR even though they're too cute to shoot. Maybe
I'll
>soap 'em away.
>
>Mick
>
>
>
. .
| Message 41
Subject: Re: A lurker's hello
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 15:56:00 -1000
aloha, the 'asian bean' as you refer, is also a 'long' bean, filipinos call
if something else, two main types in hawaii, used with every meal
.hawaii
UH Manoa has a flat string bean, excellent taste, better than the round
beans, about 7-8" long, also if you like supersweet corn, they have a #9 &
#10 types you may try, 82 day
.string bean is called hawaiian wonder,
another is the manoa wonder, but not as good
.cowboy
>From: Mick
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Subject: Re: A lurker's hello
>Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 12:11:48 -0500
>
>
>
>S & S Aqua Farm wrote:
>
> > We've had good luck with bush beans, Mick, but have never tried pole
>beans.
> > I don't know why they would be different in their growth needs,
>necessarily.
> > Our best seller at the farmers market (after a bit of sampling and
> > education) was French fillet beans, which are definitely a good
>alternative
> > for those looking for something different from (locally available) green
> > beans. I was very pleased with their production. We also have grown an
> > "Asian green bean",
>
>Thanks, Paula, I'll try and find seeds for both. Whether we ever sell any
>vegetables or not, I'm trying to grow vegetables that we like to eat first.
>Tomatoes and green beans are some of our favorites. Your info about the
>Asian
>green bean gave me great hope that I'll be able to raise beans when I find
>the
>right strains.
>
>Mick
>
. .
| Message 42
Subject: Re: Seeding a Biofilter
From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:58:01 -0500 (CDT)
Carolyn get it from any pet shop
Bruce
. .
| Message 43
Subject: Re: pacu
From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 21:09:43 -0500 (CDT)
Chris I Yes I am here I am clearing the mail before going to bed I
worked a 16hr day today and tomarow will be at least an 18hr so I can
have off on wednesday . In answer to your pacu Question About 15 spieces
with even more races but at small sizes you have a hard time telling
them apart thery all get big
Bruce
. .
| Message 44
Subject: Re: AC condensate pH
From: "Arlos"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:35:06 -0700
Adriana,
Most common cause of low pH found in condensate water in the range of 4-5
is from dissolved CO (carbon monoxide), CO2 and specific cation (in the case
of condensate sumps when condensate is recovered). Just make sure your
condensate is not dumping into metal waste piping in the basement,
specifically a cast iron "P" trap of service weight as in time the low pH
will eat through the trap and clay/ sand soils will leech into the trap and
plug. PVC and ABS should be used. Best practice would be to build a small
sump to allow 2 hours or more contact time using calcite, finely crushed
limestone or marble (there are commercial mixes available that are hot in
trade terms to raise the pH of acidic waters) That would allow the pH to
raise to 7-8 before discharge or recovery. Hope this clarifies the issue a
bit.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: gutierrez-lagatta
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 4:36 PM
Subject: AC condensate pH
>I'm curious Arlos, what makes condensate so acidic? The piping in the
>AC? Or does environmental humidity tend to e acidic?
>> The water (condensate) from an airconditioner (HVAC) is highly
>acidic and
>> generally requires being sent to waste treatment in the electronics
>> industry. I wouldn't try and collect it for reuse.
>
>
>Adriana
>
>
. .
| Message 45
Subject:
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 21:48:29 -0500
Thanks Mark & Mike,
Yeah Mike, I remember that post. They were only shocking a few feet at a
time. That wouldn't do me any good. Besides that, they got into all that
E=Mc2 kind of stuff. Remember that I have a hard time fitting a screwdriver
to a bolt
.or a wrench to a screw
.or something like that.
Thanks too Mark, but I usually find government people only good at taking up
space and breathing air
and sucking up our tax dollars. I have gone to
the local Wisconsin DNR people about a couple of problems and the "I don't
know's
.and I never saw that before
Gee Whiz!!" just amazed me. (One
very notable exception is Steve Diver and the ATTRA "group" for lack of a
better name. WOW, if anyone wants any information on anything, these folks
are fantastic.)
I will probably try Bruce's net and if that fails I will Rotenone (poison)
the pond. That would be a damned shame!
Thanks to everyone
Steve
. .
| Message 46
Subject: Re: A lurker's hello
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 21:52:46 -0500
What is this "if Ted and Bruce are around"
.WHAT AM I?? Chopped Tilapia or
something??
How dare you forget Mr. Socially Insensitive!!
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 6:50 AM
Subject: RE: A lurker's hello
Hey Mick.
glad ya decided to step out of the barn and say hello.
I lurked for about 2 days
.LOL. I have a hard time
keeping my mouth shut. Just kidding
.I drifted around
the net for quite a while reading everything I could
find until I found this list. It's great to be able
to get feedback from others
.share experiences. If
Ted and Bruce are around it can even be entertaining
.LOL.
In the short time I have been here, I have learned more
than I did in the entire previous year and made some great
friends.
I can relate to the raccoons. My friend Tessa used to laugh
at the "cute little bandits" trying to get into her trash can.
Then one day the water level in her backyard koi pond got a
little bit low
.now the raccoons are "ugly little murderers"
.LOL>
don't be a stranger,
mark
. .
| Message 47
Subject: Re:
From: "Arlos"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:07:30 -0700
Steve,
Don't know if this will work but try using sound. if you could rig up a
hydrophone or underwater speaker and in effect crank up the sound and see
what floats to the top. Would be interesting to see what kills 'em first;
Country, Metal, industrial, Hip Hop, Elvis or a half hour of Martha
Stewart. Sound travels faster than anything else in the water. If "Ride of
the Valkaryies" scared the hell out of the slopes in Apocalypse Now, then
Eminem should just about float anything right to the edge of the Pond
Of
course if that doesn't work than play some Polka for about 8 hours at 110
dB. They may just crawl out of the water to kill themselves. I don't think
Bruce is going to appreciate any slam of the Wisconsin National Anthem. Hmm,
this may be a novel way to harvest fish???? Any thoughts out there?? Can't
be anymore odd than amplified chirping in the orchard.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: STEVE SPRING
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 7:50 PM
>Thanks Mark & Mike,
>
>Yeah Mike, I remember that post. They were only shocking a few feet at a
>time. That wouldn't do me any good. Besides that, they got into all that
>E=Mc2 kind of stuff. Remember that I have a hard time fitting a screwdriver
>to a bolt
.or a wrench to a screw
.or something like that.
>
>Thanks too Mark, but I usually find government people only good at taking
up
>space and breathing air
and sucking up our tax dollars. I have gone to
>the local Wisconsin DNR people about a couple of problems and the "I don't
>know's
.and I never saw that before
Gee Whiz!!" just amazed me. (One
>very notable exception is Steve Diver and the ATTRA "group" for lack of a
>better name. WOW, if anyone wants any information on anything, these folks
>are fantastic.)
>
>I will probably try Bruce's net and if that fails I will Rotenone (poison)
>the pond. That would be a damned shame!
>
>Thanks to everyone
Steve
>
>
>
. .
| Message 48
Subject: List membership is international
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:31:03 -0500
At 08:07 PM 08/13/2001 -0700, you wrote:
If "Ride of
>the Valkaryies" scared the hell out of the slopes in Apocalypse Now, then
>Eminem should just about float anything right to the edge of the Pond.
Arlos - you know I appreciate your posts to the list, so please don't take
offense. I'd just caution you about using "racial slang", as I call it,
considering that our membership is worldwide. Although I'm certain you have
your reasons for using "slopes", I don't think it's appropriate for group
discussion.
Thanks,
Paula
PS: I wish I had even a small percentage of the knowledge you have locked
up in that brain of yours! Everytime the list gets into one of these
detailed discussions I feel less and less qualified to contribute. But I'm
reading
and hopefully learning as we go.
. .
| Message 49
Subject: Re: List membership is international
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:35:34 -0500
My apologies to the group -- Guess that will teach me to post when I'm so
tired! It's been a while since I've violated one of my own pet peeves --
sending messages to the group when they are meant for an individual. Sorry
WHAT A DAY!
Paula
. .
| Message 50
Subject: Re: List membership is international
From: "Arlos"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:35:20 -0700
Sorry about that but that line was a quote by Robert Duvall in the Movie.-----Original Message-----
From: S & S Aqua Farm
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 8:31 PM
Subject: List membership is international
>At 08:07 PM 08/13/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> If "Ride of
>>the Valkaryies" scared the hell out of the slopes in Apocalypse Now, then
>>Eminem should just about float anything right to the edge of the Pond.>
>Arlos - you know I appreciate your posts to the list, so please don't take
>offense. I'd just caution you about using "racial slang", as I call it,
>considering that our membership is worldwide. Although I'm certain you
have
>your reasons for using "slopes", I don't think it's appropriate for group
>discussion.
>
>Thanks,
>Paula
>
>PS: I wish I had even a small percentage of the knowledge you have locked
>up in that brain of yours! Everytime the list gets into one of these
>detailed discussions I feel less and less qualified to contribute. But I'm
>reading
and hopefully learning as we go.
>
>
. .
| Message 51
Subject: Re: List membership is international
From: "Arlos"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:36:10 -0700
No problem Puala, I'm sure I'll get plenty of the same tomorrow.-----Original Message-----
From: S & S Aqua Farm
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: List membership is international
>My apologies to the group -- Guess that will teach me to post when I'm so
>tired! It's been a while since I've violated one of my own pet peeves --
>sending messages to the group when they are meant for an individual.
Sorry
>
>WHAT A DAY!
>Paula
>
>
|
