Aquaponics Digest - Wed 08/15/01
Message 1: RE: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 2: Re: Seeding a Biofilter
from dreadlox
Message 3: Re: Seeding a Biofilter
from dreadlox
Message 4: Re: [SOLAR] Global Warming
from dreadlox
Message 5: RE: Water Water everywhere. from "Chris Mills"
Message 6: RE: Water Water everywhere. from "gerry magnuson"
Message 7: RE: Water Water everywhere. from "gerry magnuson"
Message 8: Re: Water Water everywhere. from "Arlos"
Message 9: Re: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 10: Re: Water Water everywhere. from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 11: RE: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 12: OT now: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
from Andrei Calciu
Message 13: Re: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
from Mick
Message 14: RE: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
from "Mark Allen Wells"
Message 15: Re: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 16: Fishing the easy way-- With Dynamite
from DAVEINBHAM 'at' aol.com
Message 17: curled tomato leaves
from "Stephanie Rankin"
Message 18: Re: Fishing the easy way-- With Dynamite
from "Robert Rogers"
Message 19: Re: Fishing the easy way-- With Dynamite
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 20: Shocking a pond or a tank
from Andrei Calciu
Message 21: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 08/14/01
from marc
Message 22: Re: Fishing the easy way-- With Dynamite
from "Steven Medlock"
Message 23: Re: Water Water everywhere. from "Arlos"
Message 24: Re: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 25: NC Aquaponics Course Nov. 6-9,2001
from Bertmcl
. .
| Message 1
Subject: RE: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 02:02:11 -0500
>In underdeveloped countries these natural things include people dying on
the
>streets from basic conditions such as starvation, diarea and malnutrition!
Leslie,
I understand what you are saying but I also agree with Mick. My
grandfather died from cancer
.my grandmother died from it
.my ex-wife
nearly died from it. The things that kill in those countries are largely
do to sanitation, poverty etc
not from their livestock grazing on
pasture.
Their agricultural practices are much closer to the way ours once were.
Joel Salatin's tests (and many others) of pasture fed beef indicate a much
healthier animal that requires no meds, has less fat, no hormones etc.
Our methods in this country and Europe have created things like mad cow
disease
.(no wonder the cows are mad
.they are feeding them dead cow
remains). We have had a huge increase in E.coli deaths in this country
in the last decade. Over 500,000 people in this country will die from
cancer this year. We have traded infectious disease for auto-immune
diseases
that were for the most part non-existent years ago and non-existent today
in those places where life is simpler and non-industrialized. The largest
industry in this country is health care. We are the most over fed, yet
undernourished nation on the planet. You don't have to go to underdeveloped
countries to find starvation, diarrhea, and malnutrition
it's right here!
.we just die slower. Hopefully, things like aquaponics will change this.
I agree about the ammonia levels
.I pulled that from an archive.
Thanks for pointing it out. take care.
mark
. .
| Message 2
Subject: Re: Seeding a Biofilter
From: dreadlox
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 02:30:23 -0700
I agree with Carl on being careful. I think thats what happens when a
little word "remote" gets loose in some peoples (my) head, especially
those living as we do here on an island, and remote, thats double
remote. :)
Veiled in me asking what it was to be used for is really my way of
saying be careful.I should have been more forceful on the list re that
point. (I pointed it out offlist to Carolyn.)
Here, most of the commercial stuff you all talk about is not available
to us
. so I have to give you the bushman, lateral view
.lol. of what
to use in a (relative word) "remote" area. (when you dont have a store
within miles and then NONE of the above commercial stuff
)
To all who didnt know
. the fish-chicken poop aquaponic water loop
brought with it some f(l)ighty word exchanges a few years back. Just
memory lane not as a cloaked warning. One staunch advocate of NO use of
waste teas etc with food products, eventually left our number, he felt
so strongly
Everthing in moderation. I used to service large machinery in food
processing halls and I tell folks all the while
.we WOULDNT really want
to know who pinkled in the canned soup, and what all goes into our food.
A lil bitty bacteria makes the stomach mucles go round
hehhehe
MORE POWER to homegrown!! LOL.
Reeling in the heat.Mike, reporting in the land of paradox,
JAMAICA.
F.Carl Uhland wrote:
>
> Howdy all,
>
> I'm not certain it's a good idea to use fecal material from cows to seed
> biofilters. It is probably true that it provides a good souce of nitrogen
> to feed bacteria, and even some "good" bacteria itself, however, cows can
> be carriers of the hamburger disease E.coli, Salmonella etc,
. .
| Message 3
Subject: Re: Seeding a Biofilter
From: dreadlox
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 02:45:53 -0700
Arlus Farnsworth wrote:
>
> fungus mycelium can "actively" remove e-coli.
--
Tell me more Arlus
. feed me feed me
.lol. Where do I get these
critters
and how do I seed a tainted bed with them.
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 4
Subject: Re: [SOLAR] Global Warming
From: dreadlox
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 02:50:12 -0700
snipped.>
> I came across this web site, which may be of use/interest
.> interesting :)
> http://matweb.com/
--
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 5
Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.From: "Chris Mills"
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:15:18 -0500
Arlos,
I would love to see a chart for calculating ozone dosage if you have the
time.
Thanks,
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com
[mailto:aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com]On Behalf Of Arlos
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 8:07 PM
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.
Brent,
UV lamps have a rated life based on hours of use and they degrade from the
first hour on. that is why an hour counter can be an important tool. A
company in Campbell, CA by the name of "Triple O" sells a UV lamp that
pushes ambient air through using a very small diaphragm pump and that air is
set inside a large filter housing. Their literature makes a lot of
statements about the use of Ozone but never directly makes any performance
claims directly about their own equipment. UV performance is measured by
plate counts of bacteria and wavelength measurement of the tubes. Nothing
against them but I have an opinion I'd rather not state on a semi public
post. Manufactures have done their homework and know the service life of the
lamps which makes an hour counter a cheap tool to use for maintenance and
service. running air through a wet UV via an eductor may produce little or
negligible amounts of ozone. An UV lamp may continue to give off
light but may not be effective any longer. Fluorescent lights produce ozone
(minimally). There are data charts to calculate dosage. Contamination
of<2ppm can be treated with UV, anymore than that should be treated with
ozone generated by a corona discharge generator. Beyond that, dosage is
based on contact and retention time, flow, temp and grams converted to
milligrams per liter. (If anyone wants a full chart for calculating ozone
dosage, raise your hands and I'll mime 'ogragh a copy for ya and post it).
If the quartz sleeve or the water is not clean, contaminates are like hiding
behind a tree for protection from sunlight. There is a minimum amount of
flocculation taking place which is like popcorn being popped to allow
contaminates to bond to one another or other materials to become large or
heavy enough to filter or drop out of the water column. Like taking a stroll
through a cotton field wearing a Velcro leisure suit. Ozone on the other
hand is an equal opportunity oxidizer it doesn't care if the water is cloudy
or full of algae, everyone gets dosed.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Bingham
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.
>We have used a ozone generator at one location for over 5 years. We have
>only had to replace the UV tubes one time. It works very well only down
side
>is the power. It uses a lot of electricity when you consider the water pump
>and the tubes. If you put it in a system that already has a pump large
>enough to make the ventures pull in fresh air, you can save on power.
>Brent
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Arlos"
>
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 12:43 PM
>Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.>
>
>> Mark,
>>
>> Another note on Ozone use. Rule of thumb (origin of that word is from
>> English where it was not permissible to whip your wife with anything
>larger
>> is diameter than your thumb, {that should really get a thread going]):
The
>> cooler the water the more effect ozone is. Hot water destroys ozone,
hense
>> my earlier post on heat destruction of off gas. Its going to take some
>good
>> engineering to reduce the temp needs in hospital laundry facilities and
>use
>> ozone. Direct injection into machines might be possible but all wetted
>> sufaces would have to be ozone resistant. Some crafty snake oil salesman
>> came up with a product called "Bioballs" which contain magnets inside and
>do
>> nothing. It was suppose to have eliminated the need for laundry
>detergent.
>> Considering most people have never even had high school chemistry, it had
>> been an easy sell, for a while. It's appeared several times in the past
>ten
>> years.The chemical industry is going to resist this (ozone as a
>sanitizer)at
>> all costs for the obvious reason, it can be produced as needed on site at
>> less cost than other chemicals and leaves no residue. Same reason we're
>all
>> looking to create a chemical free ( no more than what fish provide)
>> aquaponics system. Chemicals work wonders in the right application and
>> Monsanto would like us to still believe "Better Living through
Chemistry".
>> We're just beginning to question when is enough, enough. Who'd ever
>thought
>> we could recycle plastic bottles into socks, toasters into Toyotas. Of
>> course we don't recycle our socks into bottles, yet.
>> There have been some great articles from the group here and all have
had
>> some relevance to aquaponics in the greater picture. looking forward to
>> seeing many more
I'm talking to a publisher in Santa Barbara in a week
>> about the hidden side of wasted water in California (residential uses
>about
>> 1% of available potable water) ag and industry use the rest yet water is
>> being squeezed away from people under the need to conserve) Industry has
>> little restriction and with rare instance reuse's process water. This is
>> what makes aquaponics so great, the conservation of resources, creating
so
>> much from so little.
>>
>> Arlos
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mark Allen Wells
>> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>> Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:00 AM
>> Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.>>
>>
>> >Among its disadvantage, it does have some trouble if there is alot
>> >of organic material in the water, so dosing must be made
>> >accordingly,
>> >
>> >----
>> >
>> >Hi Carl,
>> >
>> >Thanks for the input. I understand about the problems with organic
>> >materials. We still pull our water from deep wells but cities near
>> >here like Indianapolis that pull from reservoirs have switched to
>> >chloramine to try and keep their trihalomethane numbers down (too much
>> >organic material in the water for chlorine).
>> >
>> >Ozone offers greater protection from cysts such as cryptosporidium
(which
>> >killed over 100 and left 1000's sick in Milwaukee, Wis. in '93). It also
>> >kills e.coli much quicker. It doesn't have a long life but that isn't
>> >a factor in a recirculating system like I want to create. I think
>> >you will see more hospitals going to it. I read a recent article about
>> >a hospital installing an ozone system in their laundry. I think it
>> >will be more widespread as older chlorine equipment wears out and needs
>> >replaced.
>> >
>> >Mark
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
. .
| Message 6
Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 04:03:44 -1000
I am bemused to the fact, we are all trying to use a system within itself,
yet, as in reinventing the wheel, we are trying to improve/assist
nature
.if it ain't broke, fix it anyway
.the nature of man at his
finest
.as a farmer with his independence, we still compete with our
neighbors to adjust or improve, to be just a little be more productive
.I
like it
.cowboy
>From: "Chris Mills"
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>
>Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:15:18 -0500
>
>Arlos,
>
>I would love to see a chart for calculating ozone dosage if you have the
>time.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Chris
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com
>[mailto:aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com]On Behalf Of Arlos
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 8:07 PM
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.>
>
>Brent,
>
> UV lamps have a rated life based on hours of use and they degrade from
>the
>first hour on. that is why an hour counter can be an important tool. A
>company in Campbell, CA by the name of "Triple O" sells a UV lamp that
>pushes ambient air through using a very small diaphragm pump and that air
>is
>set inside a large filter housing. Their literature makes a lot of
>statements about the use of Ozone but never directly makes any performance
>claims directly about their own equipment. UV performance is measured by
>plate counts of bacteria and wavelength measurement of the tubes. Nothing
>against them but I have an opinion I'd rather not state on a semi public
>post. Manufactures have done their homework and know the service life of
>the
>lamps which makes an hour counter a cheap tool to use for maintenance and
>service. running air through a wet UV via an eductor may produce little or
>negligible amounts of ozone. An UV lamp may continue to give off
>light but may not be effective any longer. Fluorescent lights produce ozone
>(minimally). There are data charts to calculate dosage. Contamination
>of<2ppm can be treated with UV, anymore than that should be treated with
>ozone generated by a corona discharge generator. Beyond that, dosage is
>based on contact and retention time, flow, temp and grams converted to
>milligrams per liter. (If anyone wants a full chart for calculating ozone
>dosage, raise your hands and I'll mime 'ogragh a copy for ya and post it).
>If the quartz sleeve or the water is not clean, contaminates are like
>hiding
>behind a tree for protection from sunlight. There is a minimum amount of
>flocculation taking place which is like popcorn being popped to allow
>contaminates to bond to one another or other materials to become large or
>heavy enough to filter or drop out of the water column. Like taking a
>stroll
>through a cotton field wearing a Velcro leisure suit. Ozone on the other
>hand is an equal opportunity oxidizer it doesn't care if the water is
>cloudy
>or full of algae, everyone gets dosed.
>
>Arlos
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brent Bingham
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:55 PM
>Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.>
>
> >We have used a ozone generator at one location for over 5 years. We have
> >only had to replace the UV tubes one time. It works very well only down
>side
> >is the power. It uses a lot of electricity when you consider the water
>pump
> >and the tubes. If you put it in a system that already has a pump large
> >enough to make the ventures pull in fresh air, you can save on power.
> >Brent
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Arlos"
> >
> >Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 12:43 PM
> >Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.> >
> >
> >> Mark,
> >>
> >> Another note on Ozone use. Rule of thumb (origin of that word is from
> >> English where it was not permissible to whip your wife with anything
> >larger
> >> is diameter than your thumb, {that should really get a thread going]):
>The
> >> cooler the water the more effect ozone is. Hot water destroys ozone,
>hense
> >> my earlier post on heat destruction of off gas. Its going to take some
> >good
> >> engineering to reduce the temp needs in hospital laundry facilities and
> >use
> >> ozone. Direct injection into machines might be possible but all wetted
> >> sufaces would have to be ozone resistant. Some crafty snake oil
>salesman
> >> came up with a product called "Bioballs" which contain magnets inside
>and
> >do
> >> nothing. It was suppose to have eliminated the need for laundry
> >detergent.
> >> Considering most people have never even had high school chemistry, it
>had
> >> been an easy sell, for a while. It's appeared several times in the past
> >ten
> >> years.The chemical industry is going to resist this (ozone as a
> >sanitizer)at
> >> all costs for the obvious reason, it can be produced as needed on site
>at
> >> less cost than other chemicals and leaves no residue. Same reason we're
> >all
> >> looking to create a chemical free ( no more than what fish provide)
> >> aquaponics system. Chemicals work wonders in the right application and
> >> Monsanto would like us to still believe "Better Living through
>Chemistry".
> >> We're just beginning to question when is enough, enough. Who'd ever
> >thought
> >> we could recycle plastic bottles into socks, toasters into Toyotas. Of
> >> course we don't recycle our socks into bottles, yet.
> >> There have been some great articles from the group here and all have
>had
> >> some relevance to aquaponics in the greater picture. looking forward to
> >> seeing many more
I'm talking to a publisher in Santa Barbara in a week
> >> about the hidden side of wasted water in California (residential uses
> >about
> >> 1% of available potable water) ag and industry use the rest yet water
>is
> >> being squeezed away from people under the need to conserve) Industry
>has
> >> little restriction and with rare instance reuse's process water. This
>is
> >> what makes aquaponics so great, the conservation of resources, creating
>so
> >> much from so little.
> >>
> >> Arlos
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Mark Allen Wells
> >> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> >> Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:00 AM
> >> Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.> >>
> >>
> >> >Among its disadvantage, it does have some trouble if there is alot
> >> >of organic material in the water, so dosing must be made
> >> >accordingly,
> >> >
> >> >----
> >> >
> >> >Hi Carl,
> >> >
> >> >Thanks for the input. I understand about the problems with organic
> >> >materials. We still pull our water from deep wells but cities near
> >> >here like Indianapolis that pull from reservoirs have switched to
> >> >chloramine to try and keep their trihalomethane numbers down (too much
> >> >organic material in the water for chlorine).
> >> >
> >> >Ozone offers greater protection from cysts such as cryptosporidium
>(which
> >> >killed over 100 and left 1000's sick in Milwaukee, Wis. in '93). It
>also
> >> >kills e.coli much quicker. It doesn't have a long life but that isn't
> >> >a factor in a recirculating system like I want to create. I think
> >> >you will see more hospitals going to it. I read a recent article about
> >> >a hospital installing an ozone system in their laundry. I think it
> >> >will be more widespread as older chlorine equipment wears out and
>needs
> >> >replaced.
> >> >
> >> >Mark
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
. .
| Message 7
Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 04:08:33 -1000
I would like the take on the definitions or 'organic', and ecosystem
.as it
is applied today
.organic originally meant non-use of petroleum products in
agriculture, then no artificial pesticides or fertilizers pelletized, using
salts, now 'organic' is non-use of any carbon products
.wonder if using PVC
in greenhouses would apply? One should raise yellow bamboo to make the water
system
.lol
>From: "Chris Mills"
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>
>Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:15:18 -0500
>
>Arlos,
>
>I would love to see a chart for calculating ozone dosage if you have the
>time.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Chris
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com
>[mailto:aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com]On Behalf Of Arlos
>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 8:07 PM
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.>
>
>Brent,
>
> UV lamps have a rated life based on hours of use and they degrade from
>the
>first hour on. that is why an hour counter can be an important tool. A
>company in Campbell, CA by the name of "Triple O" sells a UV lamp that
>pushes ambient air through using a very small diaphragm pump and that air
>is
>set inside a large filter housing. Their literature makes a lot of
>statements about the use of Ozone but never directly makes any performance
>claims directly about their own equipment. UV performance is measured by
>plate counts of bacteria and wavelength measurement of the tubes. Nothing
>against them but I have an opinion I'd rather not state on a semi public
>post. Manufactures have done their homework and know the service life of
>the
>lamps which makes an hour counter a cheap tool to use for maintenance and
>service. running air through a wet UV via an eductor may produce little or
>negligible amounts of ozone. An UV lamp may continue to give off
>light but may not be effective any longer. Fluorescent lights produce ozone
>(minimally). There are data charts to calculate dosage. Contamination
>of<2ppm can be treated with UV, anymore than that should be treated with
>ozone generated by a corona discharge generator. Beyond that, dosage is
>based on contact and retention time, flow, temp and grams converted to
>milligrams per liter. (If anyone wants a full chart for calculating ozone
>dosage, raise your hands and I'll mime 'ogragh a copy for ya and post it).
>If the quartz sleeve or the water is not clean, contaminates are like
>hiding
>behind a tree for protection from sunlight. There is a minimum amount of
>flocculation taking place which is like popcorn being popped to allow
>contaminates to bond to one another or other materials to become large or
>heavy enough to filter or drop out of the water column. Like taking a
>stroll
>through a cotton field wearing a Velcro leisure suit. Ozone on the other
>hand is an equal opportunity oxidizer it doesn't care if the water is
>cloudy
>or full of algae, everyone gets dosed.
>
>Arlos
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brent Bingham
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:55 PM
>Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.>
>
> >We have used a ozone generator at one location for over 5 years. We have
> >only had to replace the UV tubes one time. It works very well only down
>side
> >is the power. It uses a lot of electricity when you consider the water
>pump
> >and the tubes. If you put it in a system that already has a pump large
> >enough to make the ventures pull in fresh air, you can save on power.
> >Brent
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Arlos"
> >
> >Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 12:43 PM
> >Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.> >
> >
> >> Mark,
> >>
> >> Another note on Ozone use. Rule of thumb (origin of that word is from
> >> English where it was not permissible to whip your wife with anything
> >larger
> >> is diameter than your thumb, {that should really get a thread going]):
>The
> >> cooler the water the more effect ozone is. Hot water destroys ozone,
>hense
> >> my earlier post on heat destruction of off gas. Its going to take some
> >good
> >> engineering to reduce the temp needs in hospital laundry facilities and
> >use
> >> ozone. Direct injection into machines might be possible but all wetted
> >> sufaces would have to be ozone resistant. Some crafty snake oil
>salesman
> >> came up with a product called "Bioballs" which contain magnets inside
>and
> >do
> >> nothing. It was suppose to have eliminated the need for laundry
> >detergent.
> >> Considering most people have never even had high school chemistry, it
>had
> >> been an easy sell, for a while. It's appeared several times in the past
> >ten
> >> years.The chemical industry is going to resist this (ozone as a
> >sanitizer)at
> >> all costs for the obvious reason, it can be produced as needed on site
>at
> >> less cost than other chemicals and leaves no residue. Same reason we're
> >all
> >> looking to create a chemical free ( no more than what fish provide)
> >> aquaponics system. Chemicals work wonders in the right application and
> >> Monsanto would like us to still believe "Better Living through
>Chemistry".
> >> We're just beginning to question when is enough, enough. Who'd ever
> >thought
> >> we could recycle plastic bottles into socks, toasters into Toyotas. Of
> >> course we don't recycle our socks into bottles, yet.
> >> There have been some great articles from the group here and all have
>had
> >> some relevance to aquaponics in the greater picture. looking forward to
> >> seeing many more
I'm talking to a publisher in Santa Barbara in a week
> >> about the hidden side of wasted water in California (residential uses
> >about
> >> 1% of available potable water) ag and industry use the rest yet water
>is
> >> being squeezed away from people under the need to conserve) Industry
>has
> >> little restriction and with rare instance reuse's process water. This
>is
> >> what makes aquaponics so great, the conservation of resources, creating
>so
> >> much from so little.
> >>
> >> Arlos
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Mark Allen Wells
> >> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> >> Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:00 AM
> >> Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.> >>
> >>
> >> >Among its disadvantage, it does have some trouble if there is alot
> >> >of organic material in the water, so dosing must be made
> >> >accordingly,
> >> >
> >> >----
> >> >
> >> >Hi Carl,
> >> >
> >> >Thanks for the input. I understand about the problems with organic
> >> >materials. We still pull our water from deep wells but cities near
> >> >here like Indianapolis that pull from reservoirs have switched to
> >> >chloramine to try and keep their trihalomethane numbers down (too much
> >> >organic material in the water for chlorine).
> >> >
> >> >Ozone offers greater protection from cysts such as cryptosporidium
>(which
> >> >killed over 100 and left 1000's sick in Milwaukee, Wis. in '93). It
>also
> >> >kills e.coli much quicker. It doesn't have a long life but that isn't
> >> >a factor in a recirculating system like I want to create. I think
> >> >you will see more hospitals going to it. I read a recent article about
> >> >a hospital installing an ozone system in their laundry. I think it
> >> >will be more widespread as older chlorine equipment wears out and
>needs
> >> >replaced.
> >> >
> >> >Mark
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
. .
| Message 8
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.From: "Arlos"
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 07:44:03 -0700
Gerry,
I'm always amused at the marketing term of organic. Its now part of the
language and there's no fighting city hall over it. Ecology on the other
hand is getting a bad rap when I hope it still simply means the net effect
of biological systems working together
Sigh, chemicals are still
chemicals, Natural or manmade. Use of PVC solvent primers and cement are
debatable. Are they detectable in water, sure they are, does PVC leech, you
bet. Is it going to stop anyone from using it, nope. It's first world
bamboo. You might live in an area where water is more than plentiful but my
wife told my on the phone yesterday, we're to voluntarily not to use water
between 12 noon and 6 PM because of pumping costs. Shrinking resources here
on the CA coast, yes indeed
We now have 68ppb of total chrome in our
municipal water system, not a big wake up yet. I'm installing carbon skids
near Fresno, CA thanks in part to a chemical that was sprayed on cotton
fields that has made ground water all but unusable. Next two weeks
installing equipment for arsenic remidiation outside of Los Angeles. In my
world, things do get broken, it just happens to be the water. Ever single
person is using a PC thanks in part to what took place in the silcon valley
but the ground water has been destroyed.A fish farmer here using well water
with noticable levels of benzene
. does he treat it first or let it get
into his crop? I'm waiting to see what happens to those giant underground
fuel storage tanks that were installed above Pearl City. They are still
full, last I heard ('99). UST's, (underground storage tanks) have given me
more than a lifetime of work and they're clearly a part of what's broken.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: gerry magnuson
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 7:08 AM
Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.
>
>I would like the take on the definitions or 'organic', and ecosystem
.as
it
>is applied today
.organic originally meant non-use of petroleum products
in
>agriculture, then no artificial pesticides or fertilizers pelletized, using
>salts, now 'organic' is non-use of any carbon products
.wonder if using
PVC
>in greenhouses would apply? One should raise yellow bamboo to make the
water
>system
.lol
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: "Chris Mills"
>>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>>
>>Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.>>Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:15:18 -0500
>>
>>Arlos,
>>
>>I would love to see a chart for calculating ozone dosage if you have the
>>time.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Chris
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com
>>[mailto:aquaponics-request 'at' townsqr.com]On Behalf Of Arlos
>>Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 8:07 PM
>>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>>Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.>>
>>
>>Brent,
>>
>> UV lamps have a rated life based on hours of use and they degrade from
>>the
>>first hour on. that is why an hour counter can be an important tool. A
>>company in Campbell, CA by the name of "Triple O" sells a UV lamp that
>>pushes ambient air through using a very small diaphragm pump and that air
>>is
>>set inside a large filter housing. Their literature makes a lot of
>>statements about the use of Ozone but never directly makes any performance
>>claims directly about their own equipment. UV performance is measured by
>>plate counts of bacteria and wavelength measurement of the tubes. Nothing
>>against them but I have an opinion I'd rather not state on a semi public
>>post. Manufactures have done their homework and know the service life of
>>the
>>lamps which makes an hour counter a cheap tool to use for maintenance and
>>service. running air through a wet UV via an eductor may produce little or
>>negligible amounts of ozone. An UV lamp may continue to give off
>>light but may not be effective any longer. Fluorescent lights produce
ozone
>>(minimally). There are data charts to calculate dosage. Contamination
>>of<2ppm can be treated with UV, anymore than that should be treated with
>>ozone generated by a corona discharge generator. Beyond that, dosage is
>>based on contact and retention time, flow, temp and grams converted to
>>milligrams per liter. (If anyone wants a full chart for calculating ozone
>>dosage, raise your hands and I'll mime 'ogragh a copy for ya and post it).
>>If the quartz sleeve or the water is not clean, contaminates are like
>>hiding
>>behind a tree for protection from sunlight. There is a minimum amount of
>>flocculation taking place which is like popcorn being popped to allow
>>contaminates to bond to one another or other materials to become large or
>>heavy enough to filter or drop out of the water column. Like taking a
>>stroll
>>through a cotton field wearing a Velcro leisure suit. Ozone on the other
>>hand is an equal opportunity oxidizer it doesn't care if the water is
>>cloudy
>>or full of algae, everyone gets dosed.
>>
>>Arlos
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Brent Bingham
>>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>>Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 3:55 PM
>>Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.>>
>>
>> >We have used a ozone generator at one location for over 5 years. We have
>> >only had to replace the UV tubes one time. It works very well only down
>>side
>> >is the power. It uses a lot of electricity when you consider the water
>>pump
>> >and the tubes. If you put it in a system that already has a pump large
>> >enough to make the ventures pull in fresh air, you can save on power.
>> >Brent
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Arlos"
>> >
>> >Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 12:43 PM
>> >Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.>> >
>> >
>> >> Mark,
>> >>
>> >> Another note on Ozone use. Rule of thumb (origin of that word is from
>> >> English where it was not permissible to whip your wife with anything
>> >larger
>> >> is diameter than your thumb, {that should really get a thread going]):
>>The
>> >> cooler the water the more effect ozone is. Hot water destroys ozone,
>>hense
>> >> my earlier post on heat destruction of off gas. Its going to take some
>> >good
>> >> engineering to reduce the temp needs in hospital laundry facilities
and
>> >use
>> >> ozone. Direct injection into machines might be possible but all wetted
>> >> sufaces would have to be ozone resistant. Some crafty snake oil
>>salesman
>> >> came up with a product called "Bioballs" which contain magnets inside
>>and
>> >do
>> >> nothing. It was suppose to have eliminated the need for laundry
>> >detergent.
>> >> Considering most people have never even had high school chemistry, it
>>had
>> >> been an easy sell, for a while. It's appeared several times in the
past
>> >ten
>> >> years.The chemical industry is going to resist this (ozone as a
>> >sanitizer)at
>> >> all costs for the obvious reason, it can be produced as needed on site
>>at
>> >> less cost than other chemicals and leaves no residue. Same reason
we're
>> >all
>> >> looking to create a chemical free ( no more than what fish provide)
>> >> aquaponics system. Chemicals work wonders in the right application and
>> >> Monsanto would like us to still believe "Better Living through
>>Chemistry".
>> >> We're just beginning to question when is enough, enough. Who'd ever
>> >thought
>> >> we could recycle plastic bottles into socks, toasters into Toyotas. Of
>> >> course we don't recycle our socks into bottles, yet.
>> >> There have been some great articles from the group here and all have
>>had
>> >> some relevance to aquaponics in the greater picture. looking forward
to
>> >> seeing many more
I'm talking to a publisher in Santa Barbara in a
week
>> >> about the hidden side of wasted water in California (residential uses
>> >about
>> >> 1% of available potable water) ag and industry use the rest yet water
>>is
>> >> being squeezed away from people under the need to conserve) Industry
>>has
>> >> little restriction and with rare instance reuse's process water. This
>>is
>> >> what makes aquaponics so great, the conservation of resources,
creating
>>so
>> >> much from so little.
>> >>
>> >> Arlos
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Mark Allen Wells
>> >> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>> >> Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 10:00 AM
>> >> Subject: RE: Water Water everywhere.>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >Among its disadvantage, it does have some trouble if there is alot
>> >> >of organic material in the water, so dosing must be made
>> >> >accordingly,
>> >> >
>> >> >----
>> >> >
>> >> >Hi Carl,
>> >> >
>> >> >Thanks for the input. I understand about the problems with organic
>> >> >materials. We still pull our water from deep wells but cities near
>> >> >here like Indianapolis that pull from reservoirs have switched to
>> >> >chloramine to try and keep their trihalomethane numbers down (too
much
>> >> >organic material in the water for chlorine).
>> >> >
>> >> >Ozone offers greater protection from cysts such as cryptosporidium
>>(which
>> >> >killed over 100 and left 1000's sick in Milwaukee, Wis. in '93). It
>>also
>> >> >kills e.coli much quicker. It doesn't have a long life but that
isn't
>> >> >a factor in a recirculating system like I want to create. I think
>> >> >you will see more hospitals going to it. I read a recent article
about
>> >> >a hospital installing an ozone system in their laundry. I think it
>> >> >will be more widespread as older chlorine equipment wears out and
>>needs
>> >> >replaced.
>> >> >
>> >> >Mark
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
. .
| Message 9
Subject: Re: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:25:18 -0500 (CDT)
Folks it's easy to get carried away with the counter culture thing and
condemn our system of agriculture as the cause of all of the fad
diseases that you think were not in existence in less advanced and
simpler times but in doing so you are deluding your selfs with a Giant
Myth of context. Sorta like saying gee folks didnt use to die as much
in car and plane crashes as they do now way back in the dark ages so we
better quit useing them. With life expectancies of at best 45
years just a few short generations ago and the infant death rates easily
at 50% the human bodies actual life reaching in to the 60 to 90s just
was not happening so the cancers etc. were not being seen enough to take
note of if the technologies even existed to identify these diseases
which they most certainly did not.
So please when thinking of our future remember our past and keep you
thoughts in that context or plan on making bigger costlier mistakes and
wasting your time.
Don't reinvent the wheel instead improve its' uses for more general
And more novel applications,
Leslie speaks with the common sense of one with such a valuable
perspective
So pay attention
Bruce
. .
| Message 10
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:53:36 -0500 (CDT)
Arlos when are you going to be done with the Gramen bank trip so I can
bother you with my project? I've often thought of investing in it Its a
great cause.
You should tell the list about it I dought many know that it is a
grass roots operation giving loans to the poorest of the poor in the
most destitute regions on earth and its working with a better then
98%repayment
You mentioned a cooperative a while back count me in when your
ready let me know
Bruce
. .
| Message 11
Subject: RE: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:02:01 -0500
Leslie speaks with the common sense of one with such a valuable
perspective
So pay attention
Bruce
---
I wasn't trying to sound argumentative in my post to Leslie.
She made a valid point. But in my post I wasn't referring to places
like Africa where famine, aids, starvation, etc are rampant. I was
referring to places like some of the south american countries that
have made huge strides in sustainable agriculture where farms are
producing fuel and communities are largely agrarian because there
are few industries. I have followed many links from here to places
all over the world such as Songhai Centre where their working within
the natural systems has shown how well it works. This is what I was
referring to.
Bruce, you are right
.on average we live longer but the numbers
don't show the real picture. The Veteran's Administration hospital
where my dad works is full of people being kept alive though articifial
means
so are hospitals, nursing homes, etc
Our longer life often
has more to do with technology than overall health. My grandmother
would not be here if not for her pacemaker. Countless heartattack
patients would not be here if not for technology. There are childhood
diseases that are a direct result of our modern culture. Things like
autism and down syndrome that were once very rare are common now.
Studies of the longest lived cultures on earth reveal that they
are far from modern, industrialized, advanced societies. They reveal
that a simple life that includes fresh air, clean water, organic food
and isolation from all our modern poisons produces the longest life.
They are agrarian cultures.
http://www.ibiblio.org/soilandhealth/02healthlibrary/0203longevitycat/020302
Hlthyhunza/020302intro.html
"The Health Hunzas" makes for interesting reading. There are other books
on the subject. But all show lifestyles that have remained largely
unchanged for hundreds of years.
I apologize for how my last post may have sounded
.it wasn't written that
way.
Mark
. .
| Message 12
Subject: OT now: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:36:46 -0400
Bruce, I am afraid your argument does not hold much water. The life
expectancy in the distant past was tremendous. In the days of the Roman and
Greek empires and later the life expectancy was as high as one gets with
many reaching their 80's and 90's.
When humans started congregating in large cities and became industrialized,
we started dying off like flies, in our prime, not even making it past the
50's. With the advent of sulpha-based drugs and later antibiotics and all
the fancy pharma-chemicals we have today, we have managed to extend life to
almost what it was in the past, but the trade-off has been that we live the
last part of our life in pain and dependent on little colored pills.
There is no way we will go back to living on the farm, returning to the
horse and buggy, or abandoning technology. Our only way to get better
quality of life and better health is by eliminating the artificial crap we
ingest everyday, to the extent possible. We filter our water, we try to
grow or buy organic veggies, meats, etc. Those of us who do, will have a
better life than those who don't. If we were to do this at a planetary
level, a lot of ills will be reduced or eliminated. Of course, then we will
have to deal with overpopulation, but, hey, nothing is perfect in life.
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
fishmanbruce 'at' webtv.n
et (Bruce Schreiber) To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Sent by: cc:
aquaponics-request 'at' t Subject: Re: Seeding a Biofilter using
ammonia
ownsqr.com
08/15/01 11:25 AM
Please respond to
aquaponics
With life expectancies of at best 45 years just a few short generations ago
and the infant death rates easily
at 50% the human bodies actual life reaching in to the 60 to 90s just was
not happening so the cancers etc. were not being seen enough to take note
of if the technologies even existed to identify these diseases which they
most certainly did not.
Bruce
. .
| Message 13
Subject: Re: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
From: Mick
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:10:54 -0500
> Leslie speaks with the common sense of one with such a valuable
> perspective
> So pay attention
> Bruce
Well gosh, hon
Wasn't pickin' on Leslie atall atall. The redheaded
comment was aimed at myownself (in case that's what you're referring to).
As to the rest of my post, it was merely a difference of opinion. I'm used
to having a minority opinion when it comes to many issues. Having one of
those "fad" illnesses gives me a practical view of the connection between
food production and health. It isn't a widely held belief and I'm used to
that but I've seen the results in my own life. I won't bore you with the
details but moving to the country, keeping away from additives, pesticides
(all the other "cides") and growing as much of my own food as possible has
saved my life. For me, it is a common sense issue although I can see how it
wouldn't be for someone who hasn't experienced it.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone attempting aquaponics is a hero and a
pioneer. Whether the motive is profit or a more natural way of growing
food, the end result is the same. Food produced with this method will be a
healthy source of nourishment for whoever consumes it and will use less of
the world's resources in it's production. In a closed system, there's no
pollution either. That's a win/win in anybody's book.
You guys all wear white hats,
Mick
. .
| Message 14
Subject: RE: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:22:21 -0500
As far as I'm concerned, anyone attempting aquaponics is a hero and a
pioneer. Whether the motive is profit or a more natural way of growing
food, the end result is the same. Food produced with this method will be a
healthy source of nourishment for whoever consumes it and will use less of
the world's resources in it's production. In a closed system, there's no
pollution either. That's a win/win in anybody's book.
You guys all wear white hats,
Mick
---
Well said, Mick!
.bravo!
Communicating in this medium can be difficult sometimes
.it's easy to get
wires crossed. I have an enormous amount of respect for everyone on this
list. We don't always see things the same
.nor should we
.but we all
share a common bond in aquaponics. I am not suggesting we go back to horse
buggy days
.far from it
.this list can get very technical but at the same
time, the underlying principle is simple
.the fish feed the plants
.the
plants help the fish. This design can be seen in nature everywhere from
ponds to wetlands and is what I am talking about when I said "working
within the natural systems". Most of our agricultural methods today
don't follow this law of nature (aquaponics does). As Joel Salatin would
say
"Why are we feeding grain based diets to ruminants like cattle?" They have
two stomachs to help them digest grass, leaves, stems etc
Many of our
practices are in direct conflict with nature.
My post to Leslie may have sounded to her like I was being unamerican or
ungrateful but that isn't how I meant it. Much of our technology is of
great benefit to us
.but some of it has gone too far and is hurting us.
We need to learn from the past and take the best from it and combine it
with the best from today.
Andrei
you are right. Infectious disease is what shortened life. Outside
of that, many lived long lives even though times were hard. Jefferson was
83,
Franklin 84, Daniel Boone 86, Andrew Jackson 78
etc.
Leslie
.I appreciate all you add to this list. Please keep doing so .*smiling*
mark
. .
| Message 15
Subject: Re: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:06:03 -0700
The feed lot next to ours was associated with Bar-S Meat. Every animal that
died unexpectedly was moved to the rendering plant. It was; cut up, boiled ,
ground up, and placed back on the feed. The smell around the plant was
strong enough to turn you green and knock down a grown man not familiar
with the area. This was not last week or last year, it was going on 60 years
ago. There was no "mad cow" problems then, what is different today? I think
simplistic answers do not help any of us. Is AIDS or hunta virus ( I do not
know how to spell it) or Ebola virus the result of modern high density
farming. If so why are the origins of such disease traced to places that
steel farm as they did centuries ago in Africa or on reservations.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Allen Wells"
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 12:02 AM
Subject: RE: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
> >In underdeveloped countries these natural things include people dying on
> the
> >streets from basic conditions such as starvation, diarea and
malnutrition!
>
> Leslie,
>
> I understand what you are saying but I also agree with Mick. My
> grandfather died from cancer
.my grandmother died from it
.my ex-wife
> nearly died from it. The things that kill in those countries are largely
> do to sanitation, poverty etc
not from their livestock grazing on
> pasture.
> Their agricultural practices are much closer to the way ours once were.
> Joel Salatin's tests (and many others) of pasture fed beef indicate a much
> healthier animal that requires no meds, has less fat, no hormones etc.
> Our methods in this country and Europe have created things like mad cow
> disease
.(no wonder the cows are mad
.they are feeding them dead cow
> remains). We have had a huge increase in E.coli deaths in this country
> in the last decade. Over 500,000 people in this country will die from
> cancer this year. We have traded infectious disease for auto-immune
> diseases
> that were for the most part non-existent years ago and non-existent today
> in those places where life is simpler and non-industrialized. The largest
> industry in this country is health care. We are the most over fed, yet
> undernourished nation on the planet. You don't have to go to
underdeveloped
> countries to find starvation, diarrhea, and malnutrition
it's right
here!
>
.we just die slower. Hopefully, things like aquaponics will change
this.
>
> I agree about the ammonia levels
.I pulled that from an archive.
> Thanks for pointing it out. take care.>
> mark
>
>
. .
| Message 16
Subject: Fishing the easy way-- With Dynamite
From: DAVEINBHAM 'at' aol.com
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:44:35 EDT
Message 6
Subject: shocking
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 01:28:48 -0500
Hi Gang,
I believe I asked this before and didn't get a lot of response, so I'm going
to ask again.
Do any of you gurus out there have any expertise in electrical shocking of
ponds? I have a bunch of "crap" fish that I want to get rid of, but I don't
want to poison the pond due to all of the other life in there. I figure that
if I shock and "stun" the fish, I can get out what I don't want and the rest
will recover. I don't have any idea about what I'm talking so any help would
be appreciated. My pond is very small
.maybe 1/4 - 1/3 acre.
Bruce & I tried a battery charger. Well, that didn't work. Talk about the
dumb leading the dumber. Good thing we didn't kill ourselves. (I wanted to
try using house current, but Bruce didn't think that was such a good idea.
Heh
.Heh!!!)
Thanks
.Steve
******************************************************************************
*********
Steve,
Forget electricity. Use dynamite. Any farmer in your area over 60 years old
will probably be glad to show you how. ( When dealing with explosives, ALWAYS
get someone older. Youngsters who don't do it right don't get to be older.
Experience is everything in this line of work.)
If you want to be strictly legal, first check with your county agent to see
if it is legal in your state on your own property. Then contact your county
sherriff to see if you need a permit of some kind. Also ask the fuzz to
reccommend someone to show you how to do it. And while you got the sherriff
on the phone ask about what the fine is if it isn't legal and you decide to
do it anyway. Around here the fine is usually about $50 and court costs if
you dynamite your own pond. Much more if you try to dynamite someone else's
pond or bank vault.
Been there, done that ( the pond, not the bank.)
.I hope this helps.
Kindest regards,
Dave
. .
| Message 17
Subject: curled tomato leaves
From: "Stephanie Rankin"
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 16:11:30 -0700
I don't know where you are but in the southwest we have been hit heavy by
curly leaf virus. the plants will still produce if they are not stressed
alot (yeah our desert heat puts a quick end to the no stress rule) but
covering them with muslin cloth seems to help alittle. If you do have
infected plants there is no cure and insects can spread the disease to
peppers also so pulling them up is the only "control" be sure that it's
curly leaf virus before doing something that extreme.
Stephanie
. .
| Message 18
Subject: Re: Fishing the easy way-- With Dynamite
From: "Robert Rogers"
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:12:57 -0400
Go to the local bar and tell everyone you have a job for Lefty
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 5:44 PM
Subject: Fishing the easy way-- With Dynamite
> Message 6
> ' '
> Subject: shocking
> From: "STEVE SPRING"
> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 01:28:48 -0500
>
> Hi Gang,
>
> I believe I asked this before and didn't get a lot of response, so I'm
going
> to ask again.
>
> Do any of you gurus out there have any expertise in electrical shocking of
> ponds? I have a bunch of "crap" fish that I want to get rid of, but I
don't
> want to poison the pond due to all of the other life in there. I figure
that
> if I shock and "stun" the fish, I can get out what I don't want and the
rest
> will recover. I don't have any idea about what I'm talking so any help
would
> be appreciated. My pond is very small
.maybe 1/4 - 1/3 acre.
>
> Bruce & I tried a battery charger. Well, that didn't work. Talk about the
> dumb leading the dumber. Good thing we didn't kill ourselves. (I wanted to
> try using house current, but Bruce didn't think that was such a good idea.
> Heh
.Heh!!!)
>
> Thanks
.Steve
>
>
****************************************************************************
**
>
> *********
> Steve,
> Forget electricity. Use dynamite. Any farmer in your area over 60 years
old
> will probably be glad to show you how. ( When dealing with explosives,
ALWAYS
> get someone older. Youngsters who don't do it right don't get to be older.
> Experience is everything in this line of work.)
>
> If you want to be strictly legal, first check with your county agent to
see
> if it is legal in your state on your own property. Then contact your
county
> sherriff to see if you need a permit of some kind. Also ask the fuzz to
> reccommend someone to show you how to do it. And while you got the
sherriff
> on the phone ask about what the fine is if it isn't legal and you decide
to
> do it anyway. Around here the fine is usually about $50 and court costs if
> you dynamite your own pond. Much more if you try to dynamite someone
else's
> pond or bank vault.
>
> Been there, done that ( the pond, not the bank.)
> .I hope this helps.
>
> Kindest regards,
> Dave
. .
| Message 19
Subject: Re: Fishing the easy way-- With Dynamite
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:06:53 -0500
Another way to "shock" a pond is with some product which depletes all
of the oxygen out of the pond. It's non-selective and all of the
fishies go bye-bye. If you want a name of the product I can ask my
farm landlady who is considering "shocking" her pond this way.
> Do any of you gurus out there have any expertise in electrical
shocking of
> ponds? I have a bunch of "crap" fish that I want to get rid of, but
I don't
> want to poison the pond due to all of the other life in there.
Adriana
. .
| Message 20
Subject: Shocking a pond or a tank
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 18:18:36 -0400
You can shock a tank by injecting CO2 in the water and turning off your
aerator. The same principle could work for a pond, but you may need more
hoses.
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
. .
| Message 21
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Tue 08/14/01
From: marc
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:21:51 -0600
Ted did a good work about too much nitrogen a couple of
years ago. I suspect it's in the archives somewhere.
Marc
> Subject: too much nitrogen
> From: "Marc Laberge"
> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:44:26 -0400
>
> Ken, can too much nitrogen be the cause for ripples on the leaves of head
> lettuce, I'm curious, because I've never found any literature on this.
> Marc Laberge
> Mont Tremblant
> Quebec , Canada
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| Message 22
Subject: Re: Fishing the easy way-- With Dynamite
From: "Steven Medlock"
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:34:24 -0500
Steve,
Hey this may help, when I was a kid I was able to watch the use of a
crank telephone, you put the leads in the water and crank it. It will not
do the whole pond but it does do ereas. Otherwise I would contact the
conservation dept. They do it for studies all the time here.
Steve
Red
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 4:44 PM
Subject: Fishing the easy way-- With Dynamite
> Message 6
> ' '
> Subject: shocking
> From: "STEVE SPRING"
> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 01:28:48 -0500
>
> Hi Gang,
>
> I believe I asked this before and didn't get a lot of response, so I'm
going
> to ask again.
>
> Do any of you gurus out there have any expertise in electrical shocking of
> ponds? I have a bunch of "crap" fish that I want to get rid of, but I
don't
> want to poison the pond due to all of the other life in there. I figure
that
> if I shock and "stun" the fish, I can get out what I don't want and the
rest
> will recover. I don't have any idea about what I'm talking so any help
would
> be appreciated. My pond is very small
.maybe 1/4 - 1/3 acre.
>
> Bruce & I tried a battery charger. Well, that didn't work. Talk about the
> dumb leading the dumber. Good thing we didn't kill ourselves. (I wanted to
> try using house current, but Bruce didn't think that was such a good idea.
> Heh
.Heh!!!)
>
> Thanks
.Steve
>
>
****************************************************************************
**
>
> *********
> Steve,
> Forget electricity. Use dynamite. Any farmer in your area over 60 years
old
> will probably be glad to show you how. ( When dealing with explosives,
ALWAYS
> get someone older. Youngsters who don't do it right don't get to be older.
> Experience is everything in this line of work.)
>
> If you want to be strictly legal, first check with your county agent to
see
> if it is legal in your state on your own property. Then contact your
county
> sherriff to see if you need a permit of some kind. Also ask the fuzz to
> reccommend someone to show you how to do it. And while you got the
sherriff
> on the phone ask about what the fine is if it isn't legal and you decide
to
> do it anyway. Around here the fine is usually about $50 and court costs if
> you dynamite your own pond. Much more if you try to dynamite someone
else's
> pond or bank vault.
>
> Been there, done that ( the pond, not the bank.)
> .I hope this helps.
>
> Kindest regards,
> Dave
>
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| Message 23
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.From: "Arlos"
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:26:20 -0700
Bruce,
Funny you should mention the Gramen Bank, I was just talking with my wife
on the phone about an Indian Engineer and close friend from Stanford I'm
meeting in Los Angeles next week about that very subject. I'm still
targeting October
I've reached the top of my career ladder and several
years ago after working in Latin America I decided I was going to put back
more than I every received into water treatment in the third world. There is
one thing about seeing a photograph of drinking and cooking water drawn from
an open drainage ditch full of raw sewage and the occasional dead animal but
seeing it live will change your life forever
I'm one of those rare
engineers that started a career by working as a pipefitter and going to
school over 10 years to finish a degree. I still spend more time in the
field than in an office and not with a coffee cup in hand. Right now I'm
covered in dust from loading carbon vessels all day, backwashing and setting
flows wearing tyvek in 95 deg F heat ( I 'm in pretty severe need of a
shower right now). There is nothing more rewarding than work. Ok, knowing
the science behind it is pretty neat.
I'll type out a few more thoughts on an online co-op a little latter.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Schreiber
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Water Water everywhere.
Arlos when are you going to be done with the Gramen bank trip so I can
bother you with my project? I've often thought of investing in it Its a
great cause.
You should tell the list about it I dought many know that it is a
grass roots operation giving loans to the poorest of the poor in the
most destitute regions on earth and its working with a better then
98%repayment
You mentioned a cooperative a while back count me in when your
ready let me know
Bruce
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| Message 24
Subject: Re: Seeding a Biofilter using ammonia
From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:47:08 -0500 (CDT)
I just love this list
First just let me say that you don't have to apologize to me. I
have an open mind and consider all points of view. It's not possible to
offend me so don't worry about it. When I say the average life
expectancy was at best 45 years old, I am right. No contest. You
forget that with a 50% give or take a little death rate of children
under 5 years old. All of the women that died at child birth then of
course the diseases, the starvation, the wars caused by over population
at the time because of the human population competing for the available
crop land.Average is the key. You give me as a counter to that all of
the high men of the land, presidents, kings, patriarchs that got the
best of everything as an example that I was wrong. I sincerely disagree
with you. Every patriarch, king, president, wise man in recorded
history were rich. They did not suffer the dregs of the common man. On
another thing I spent a lot of years working for a military attache. He
taught me to read between the lines. Since you probably don't know the
type of jobs the military attache actually do, I won't tell you. Here's
one of the read between lines. Ebola Zaire broke out in the far distant
back waters of Zaire. It is a devastating disease that kills like wild
fire. The first person that died was a laboratory technician.!! How
can it be that a laboratory technician chose to go all the way to the
hinterland to study an out break that had not yet happened unless he
brought it with him sorta bringing his work home with him? Chance you
say I say no chance It was a lab test 93% certain. And the Aids thing
Its called slim in Africa is just as suspicious!. Some where some one is
deliberately starting these plagues to kill off unwanted population but
who?And why?and for what purpose. Its as if they want the land or some
resource it contains .Did you ever notice that most of the recently
developed fossil fuel rich lands also have civil wars of their
governments against their populations centered over the fuel deposits
backed by the blameless oil companies.
Sudan,Iryenjia,Angola,East Timor, etc.etc. bla bla bla.Now that is a
glass ceiling if I ever saw one, a bit toxic for my tastes though,
Might there be a connection Nah no way . Little Ostrich just keep
your head in the sand a little bit longer and every thing will be fine
.Ostrich steaks on the house tomorrow boys and you don't have to kiss it
first
Its time to hit the sack for a 1am start in the morning so
good night for now Think like lives a chess match
Bruce
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| Message 25
Subject: NC Aquaponics Course Nov. 6-9,2001
From: Bertmcl
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 23:18:19 EDT
Fellow list members, I along with many others have been asked to help promote
"AQUAPONICS - combining Aquaculture & Hydroponics for mutual benefit"
Sponsored by Aquaculture International.Inc.
I have been assured that sessions will be informal,allowing plenty of time
for questions and discussions. If you are already involved in Aquaponics,
bring a few slides to share with the class.
Many questions that have been asked on this great list will be discussed
during the course. Please think about attending.
For a brochure outling the course please send me you name and address and I
will send a brochure.
Reply off-line to Bertmcl.
Thanks for your time.
Bert
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