Aquaponics Digest - Sun 08/26/01
Message 1: Wastewater reuse - Info
from dreadlox
Message 2: Re: BTUs per Dollar
. or how to select a heating system
from dreadlox
Message 3: Missing points - Subject headers
from dreadlox
Message 4: Air Storage in old mines & Coffee as a Water Filter
from dreadlox
Message 5: Re: Bacteria Mediated Yada Yada in Aquaponic Media: Phosphorus
from "TGTX"
Message 6: Re: Bacteria Mediated Geochemistry in Aquaponic Media: Iron
from "TGTX"
Message 7: Re: Bacteria Mediated Yada Yada in Aquaponic Media: Phosphorus
from "TGTX"
Message 8: Phosphorus in Aquaponic Media:
from dreadlox
Message 9: Re: Aquaponics Sprouts Linked to Deadly Infection
from marc
Message 10: Re: reality marketing
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 11: Manganese
from "TGTX"
Message 12: Manganese
from "TGTX"
Message 13: Mangled Knees
from "TGTX"
Message 14: Re: reality marketing
from Mick
Message 15: Manganese
from "TGTX"
Message 16: Algae Control Products
from "Thomas Short"
Message 17: Re: Free floating algae problem
from "Arlos"
Message 18: Re: Wastewater reuse - Info
from "Arlos"
Message 19: Re: Manganese
from "Arlos"
. .
| Message 1
Subject: Wastewater reuse - Info
From: dreadlox
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 02:38:17 -0700
Thought some of you may find this interesting
Mike.
Subject:
Re: Wastewater reuse
Date:
Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:19:54 -0600
From:
Anne Peasey
Reply-To:
A list for discussion and information exchange relating to
applied research in the water
To:
WATER-AND-SAN-APPLIED-RESEARCH 'at' JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Dear Arturo Gleason,
If you would like more information about the studies carried out in the
Mezquital Valley, Hidalgo State,
you may find helpful the following publications that are available on
the internet,
1) A review of policy and standards for wastewater reuse in agriculture:
A Latin American perspective,
(1999) by Anne Peasey, Ursula Blumenthal, Duncan Mara, and Guillermo
Ruiz-Palacios
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/well/studies/t68ii.pdf
2) Guidelines for wastewater reuse in agriculture and aquaculture:
recommended revisions based on new
research evidence (1999) by Ursula Blumenthal, Anne Peasey, Guillermo
Ruiz-Palacios and Duncan
Mara
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/well/studies/t68i.pdf
3) Guidelines for the microbiological quality of treated wastewater used
in agriculture: recommendations
for revising WHO guidelines by Ursula J. Blumenthal, D. Duncan Mara,
Anne Peasey, Guillermo Ruiz-
Palacios, & Rebecca Stott: Bull WHO vol.78, no.9, 1104-1116.
http://www.who.int/bulletin/pdf/2000/issue9/bu0741.pdf
Yours sincerely
Anne Peasey
Dr Anne Peasey Department of Infectious Diseases Instituto Nacional de
Ciencias Medicas y Nutricion SZ Vasco de Quiroga #15 Tlalpan Mexico DF
CP14000 MEXICO
Tel 00 52 5 655 9675 (direct) 00 52 5 573 1200 (extn 2420, 2421) Fax 00
52 5 513 0010 email apeasey 'at' quetzal.innsz.mx
--
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 2
Subject: Re: BTUs per Dollar
. or how to select a heating system
From: dreadlox
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 02:39:37 -0700
Hi Nick,
Are you on solar-ac 'at' yahoogroups.com yet? Brent I see you are there too!!
Great stuff. Ive been pushing this a long time!!
If you dont mind Id like to crosspost this mail. Excellent reading.
Thanks for this.
Mike.
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
Nick Kemp wrote:
>
> Here is the best way to select a heating system for any purpose. The method
> looks at how many BTUs are generated per dollar and the goal is to get the
> most BTUs per dollar. What you'll see is that efficiency has nothing to do
> with the best system.
--
. .
| Message 3
Subject: Missing points - Subject headers
From: dreadlox
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 03:12:41 -0700
Marc (laberge) I wanted to point out too that I saw an article recently
about coffee grounds being used to filter water with good results.
I wondered if you had taken that into consideration with your phosphate
levels, and why you used coffee in the first place.
Secondly, Brent, you mentioned air storage in mines. I am trying to
locate another article I read with this actually happening. Im wondering
if it was on the microhydro group
. this happens when folks dont used
valid subject headers
. Another reason to ask that folks keep subjects
relavant! :>
hmmmm.
--
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 4
Subject: Air Storage in old mines & Coffee as a Water Filter
From: dreadlox
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 03:47:47 -0700
Found that article!! (on Air as a storage medium)
http://www.sandia.gov/media/NewsRel/NR2001/norton.htm
http://unisci.com/stories/20013/0802016.htm
And Marc L. I now feel vindicated. Being the lateral thinker I am
and
provided with the facts of Teds post, re phosphorus being able to be
locked up, please read the following.
http://ens.lycos.com/ens/feb2000/2000L-02-02-01.html
Is there a link between you using coffee grounds to filter the water you
wanted to test and WHY did you choose that medium??
Phew
!! NOW the baby is born
or the bump burst
. or the ahmmm water
boiled or
.whatever
.I can go get some DEEP sleep. :>
Coffee free of course
.lol.
--
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
. .
| Message 5
Subject: Re: Bacteria Mediated Yada Yada in Aquaponic Media: Phosphorus
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 06:17:17 -0500
>Ted, any ideas why I could have a buildup of phosphorus in my wastewater
>beds with no apparent phosphorus inputs?? Is it the fact that I am not
>really doing any bed maintenance etc? (as in leaves falling and rotting
>in the water?) Any ideas?
>My nitrates are the easy ones to get rid of
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
Howdy Mike. What analytical method do you use to determine P? Are you
measuring Total Phosphorus via a digestion of a whole sample of unfiltered
water which includes suspended solids? Or are you just looking at
ortho-phosphate (PO4)?
Perhaps a better description of your "wastewater beds" in terms of both
form(structure, dimension, composition) and function(process
.inputs,
outputs, operation, hydraulics) would help illuminate my dim dome.
Hope things are going well in the West Indies.
Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem
Ted
. .
| Message 6
Subject: Re: Bacteria Mediated Geochemistry in Aquaponic Media: Iron
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 06:58:14 -0500
>From: Arlus Farnsworth
>You mentioned ferrous hydroxide in the previous about sulfer and
>anaerobic corrosion of iron.
>And here:
>"Ferric iron precipitates in alkaline environments as
>ferric hydroxide."
>Are these the same compound?
Nope.
Ferrous hydroxide Fe(OH)2 forms a layer on the metallic iron in soil under
anaerobic (little or zero oxygen) soil. In the example I gave, some sulfate
is present and plays a role in subsequent reactions, but in the initial
spontaneous chemical reaction, apparently the diatomic hydrogen (H2) gas
product of the spontaneous reaction of water and metallic iron hangs around
that layer, too.
In aerobic environments, ferric hydroxide Fe(OH)3 is formed, but many
different types of bacteria can reduce the ferric iron to ferrous iron. As
many as 10^6 (1 million) bactera per gram of soil have the capacity to
reduce iron actively. As many as 10% of the bacterial colonies on agar
plates prepared from soil dilutions are associated with the ability to
reduce iron. Microzones of anoxia with a designed ecosystem such as an
"artificial" wetland, or an aquaponics system, may actually help liberate
iron for plant availability, but right now I am not going to specify HOW
small or "micro" those zones might have to be.
Ted
. .
| Message 7
Subject: Re: Bacteria Mediated Yada Yada in Aquaponic Media: Phosphorus
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:40:20 -0500
> >Ted, any ideas why I could have a buildup of phosphorus in my wastewater
> >beds with no apparent phosphorus inputs?? Is it the fact that I am not
> >really doing any bed maintenance etc? (as in leaves falling and rotting
> >in the water?) Any ideas?
> >My nitrates are the easy ones to get rid of
> ><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
Mike, my assertion is that although insoluble inorganic compounds of
phosphorus are largely unavailable to plants, many microorganisms can bring
the phosphorus into soluble form. Again, citing Alexander's Intro to Soil
Microbiology, this attribute is not rare since up to one half of soil
bacterial isolates tested usually are capable of solubilizing calcium
phosphates, and the counts of bacteria solubilizing insoluble inorganic
forms of phosphorus may be as high as 10^7 (10 million) per gram of soil.
Such bacteria are often especially abundant on root surfaces. (Raghu, K.
and I.C. MacRae, 1966 Journal of Applied Bacteriology, 29:582-586). Species
of Pseudomonas, Mycobacterium, Micrococcus, Bacillus, Flavobacterium,
Penicillium, Sclerotium, Fusarium, Aspergillus, and others are active in the
conversion of insoluble inorganic phosphorus into soluble phosphorus. Many
soil microorganisms, both bacteria and fungi, can grow in culture media with
only apatite (ahem),
that is, Ca3(PO4)2, or similar insoluble inorganic phosphorus materals as
the sole phosphours sources.
I assert that not only do the microorganisms assimilate the phosphorus but
that they also make a large portion soluble, releasing quantities in excess
of their own nutritional demands. Which is remarkable and causes some of
us prairie pioneer dreamers and Bio-Bards to ponder, on the prairie, such
things as grand intelligent designs, and, ergo, Grand Designer(s) with Grand
Intelligence. These ponderings can lead the pilgrim to discoveries of
rivers of grandeur, or many Rio Grandes, one might say. Yee Haw.
If the inorganic insoluble phosphorus mineral source is suspended in an agar
microbiological growth medium, the strains of microbes in the soil
responsible for converting the phosphorus to soluble forms can be readily
detected by the zone of clearing produced around the colony formed on the
agar. This solubilizaton of phosphorus minerals is not restricted to
calcium salts of phosphorus. Iron, aluminum, magnesium, manganese, and
other phosphorus salts are biologically acted on also.
Alexander writes that the major microbiological means by which insoluble
phosphorus compounds are mobilized is by the production of organic acids.
Acetic acid or vinegar is an organic acid, for example. In the speical case
of the ammonium- and sulfur-oxidizing chemoautotrophs, nitric acid and
sulfuric acids are responsible. The organic or inorganic acids convert the
Ca3(PO)4 to di-and monobasic phosphate speices with the net result of an
enhanced availability of the element to plants. (But only if the bugs have
the apatite for it!) The amount of P brought into solution by heterotrophs
varies with the carbohydrate oxidized, and the transformation generally
proceeds only if the carbonaceous substrate is one converted to organic
acids.
The oxidation of elemental sulfur (a substance which is recognized and
approved as A-OK in at least some organic certification programs, including
the US national program, as I understand it) is a simple and effective means
of providing utilizable phosphorus from inorganic insoluble forms of P
present in the soil. For example, a mixture may be prepared with soil or
manure, elemental sulfur, and rock phosphate, which contains radioactive
Polonium, naturally. Anyways, as the sulfur is oxidized to sulfuric acid by
Thiobacillus sp., there is an increase in acidity and a the apatite begins
to dissolve. So, if you have acid, you begin to lose your apatite, see.
The nitrification process by our good buddies Nitosomonas et.al, also leads
to a slight but significant liberation of phosphorus from composts to which
rock phosphate has been added. Biological sulfur or ammonium oxidation has
not been adopted by conventional commercial agriculture because of the
availablity of cheap and efficient menas of preparing and applying
fertilizer salts to the soil. What do you say about what we already have
going for us in an aquaponics gravel bed when you think about that
comparitively and by contrast, eh?
Alexander writes that although phosphate solubilization commonly requires
acid production, other mechanisms may account for ferric phosphate
mobilization. Uh oh
. now it is all starting to form a great web of
aquaponic science connectivity. Bill Nye's got nothing on us here,
so
.let's read on in rapt fascination and curiosity
.In flooded soil,
the iron in insoluble ferric phosphates may be reduced, a process leading to
the formation of soluble iron with a concomitant release of phosphate into
solution (Patrick, , Gotoh, and Williams, 1973. Science, 179:564-565). Such
increases in the availability of phosphorus subsequent to flooding a soil,
sediment, wetland, (or gravel growing bed?)may explain why rice cultivated
under water often has a lower requirement for fertilizer phosphorus than
crops grown in dry-land agriculture on the same soil.
Inorganic phosphorus may also be made more available for plant uptake by
certain bactera that liberate H2S (hydrogen sulfide), a product that reacts
with ferric phosphate to yield ferrous sulfide, liberating the phosphate
(Sperber, J.I. 1957, Nature 180:994-995).
Alexander shows data supporting the assertion that the many phosphorus
dissolving microbes in the vicinity of plant roots appreciably enhances P
assimilation by the plants. He shows that the yield of oats grown in
sterile and non-sterile conditions with the additon of phosphorus as
ferrophosphate, CaHPO4, Ca3(PO4)2, and bonemeal is consistently greater in
the nonsterile plots due to the microbes role in solubilizing the P for the
plants.
It is interesting that the rate of P mineralization from the organic forms
of P in the soil is "ENHANCED BY ADJUSTING THE pH TO VALUES CONDUCIVE TO
GENERAL MICROBIAL METABOLISM, AND A SHIFT FROM ACIDITY TO NEUTRALITY
INCREASES PHOSPHATE RELEASE"
.from the organic forms of P. Furthermore,
the rate of mineralization is directly related to the quantity of substrate;
hence soils rich in organic phosphorus will be the most active. The
microbial degradation of organic P is not inhibited by inorganic P so that
mineralization proceeds rapidly even when the soil has "adequate" phosphate
(Daughtrey, Gilliam, and Kamprath. 1973, Soil Science, 115:18-24). The P
uptake by plants is correlated with the mineralization rate of P from
organic forms of P in the soil (Sekhon and Black , 1968, Plant Soil,
29:299-304).
As you might suspect, there is a correlation between the biologically
mediated mineralization rates of Carbon, Nitrogen, and Phosphorus from their
organic forms in the soil. The ratio of C:N:P microbial mineralization
RATES at an equilibrium condition is similar to the ratio of those 3
elements in the soil humus (Thompson, Black & Zoellner, 1954, Soil Science,
77:185-196). So, if soil ratios of C:P are around 100 or 200 to 1, then
rates organic carbon decomposition as measured by CO2 evolved by microbial
decomposition of the organic matter, would be about 100 or 200 times the
mineralization rate, roughly, of organic P mineralization.
It is interesting how this might play out in aquaponic gravel beds. One
point of contrast is that fish feed and aquaculture waste may have different
C:N:P ratios than some soils that have been studied. Another interesting
point of potential research is that in greenwater systems, or in other
systems in which we deliberately play with the protein content of the feed,
and thus, subsequently, change the C:N:P ratios in the waste going into an
aquaponics biofilter-growbed. Many aquaculture feeds have inorganic
phosporus added as dicalcium phosphate, and some feeds have been
experimented with that have phytase added to enhance phosphorus availability
and thus digestibility for the animals of the plant-based phosphorus (phytic
acid or its calcium-magnesium salt, phytin) in the soybean or other plant
ingredients in the feed. So, all these things could have interesting
consequences or considerations for P mineralization and availability to
plants in aquaponic systems, and they could potenially serve as doctoral
dissertation topics
for some enterprising young scholars, or even older
scholars
.ahem.
Later.
Tedzo
. .
| Message 8
Subject: Phosphorus in Aquaponic Media:
From: dreadlox
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:23:11 -0700
Ted I will be contacting you offlist with specific info. However
pictures of the growbeds which are basically polishing treated
wastewater, (filtered from solids and biofiltered) are available on the
http://Aquaponics.20megsfree.com site photo page.
Schalom.><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
TGTX wrote:
> Perhaps a better description of your "wastewater beds" in terms of both
> form(structure, dimension, composition) and function(process
.inputs,
> outputs, operation, hydraulics) would help illuminate my dim dome.
>
> Hope things are going well in the West Indies.
>
> Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem
>
> Ted
--
. .
| Message 9
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Sprouts Linked to Deadly Infection
From: marc
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:07:11 -0600
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/abc/20010825/ts/sprouts010824_1.html
. .
| Message 10
Subject: Re: reality marketing
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:47:56 -0500
And massive regulatory oversight, I suggest you research this
thoroughly before going ahead with any plans to selanything but live
fish.> logistic problems in keeping the fish alive for sale. If filleted,
you have
> temperature and hygiene concerns.
Adriana
. .
| Message 11
Subject: Manganese
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:41:00 -0500
Here is a little ditty about Mangled Knees, one of my favorite transition
metals in the periodic table. Did you know that it has about the most, the
greatest, number of different valence states of any other metal on the
table
periodic, that is? Nine documented valence states at least in the
lab. There's just something about that D-orbital that you gotta love, eh?
Tally Ho!
References: Microbial Ecology Fundamentals and Applications, by Atlas &
Bartha, and Introduction to Soil Microbiology by Alexander, and other
references listed elsewhere in the following text:
The Manganese Cycle
Manganese is cycled by microbes between its oxidized and reduced states
much like iron, except Mn occurs in the "ecosphere" either in the reduced
manganous (Mn2+) or in the oxidized manganic (Mn+4) state. The manganous
ion is stable under aerobic conditions at pH values of less than 5.5, but it
is also stable at higher pH values under anaerobic conditions. In the
presence of oxygen, at pH values greater than 8, the manganous ion is
spontaneously oxidized to the tetravalent manganic ion. The manganic ion
forms a dioxide (MnO2) that is insoluble in water. Manganic oxide is not
readily assimilated by plants.
In some marine and freshwater habitats, the precipitation of manganese forms
characteristic manganese nodules. Anyone remember reading about mining for
manganese nodules on the ocean floor? Anyone ever actually dredged up such
nodules off the ocean floor of your
.of this planet? Actually it may be
more accurate to say "ferromanganese nodules", but who's taking notes,
anyway? And if we started talking ferromanganese then we would have to start
drawing almost mystical connections in the great aquaponics web of science,
but I'm just too tired to do that right now, much to the
relief, no doubt, of those who choose to be buffeted, even tormented, by
long winds because they haven't discovered the delete key, or likely, there
own navels.
Gallionella, Metallogenium, Sphaerotilus, Leptothrix, Bacillus, Pseudomonas,
and Arthrobacter strains have been reported to oxidize Mn2+, whereas
metabolism in anaerobic environs and in varieties of soils by a wide variety
of bacteria result in Mn+4 reduction, increasing the solubility and mobility
of the resulting
Mn2+. Reduction of Mn4+ migh occur enzymatically, but if so, writes Atlas
and Bartha, the process is still obscure.
We have already discussed the idea that oxidation of elemental sulfur causes
a solubilization of soil minerals due to the sulfuric acid formed in that
process, and this applies to manganese as well. Manganese deficiency in
plants can be corrected in soils by the application of sulfur or thiosulfate
treatments. Plants can assimilate the divalent form, Mn2+ which is an
exchangeable cation and is water soluble, whereas the tetravalent Mn+4 form
is essentially insoluble.
In addition to the genera listed above, Alexander reports that
Corynebacterium, Klebsiella, Pedomicrobium, Cladosporium, Curvularia,
Fusarium, and Cephalosporium are bacteria and fungi that can actively
oxidize Mn. He writes that 5 to 15% of species in the total soil microflora
can oxidize Mn. He points out that deficiencies of Mn occur commonly in
soils rich in organic matter and at pH values of 6.5 to 8.0. Dilute MnSO4
solutions are sometimes sprayed on the foliage to reverse deficiencies, or
sulfur is added to the soil, or flooding the soil, to increase the amount of
assimilable Mn.
For manganese reduction, Alexander tells us that when glucose (a
carbohydrate source for the bugs) is added to a well-drained soil in which
the plants are deficient in Mn, the unavailable manganic oxides decrease
until the carb source has been entirely metabolized. And in pure bacterial
cultures, many kinds of bacteria can reduce MnO2 in the presence of an
oxidizable organic nutrient source, including Bacillus, Clostridium,
Micrococcus, and Pseudomonas
.interesting, eh?
Here is something cool to ponder: Alexander reports that an anomaly occurs
during the oxidation of elemental sulfur by Thiobacillus thiooxidans grown
in media containing MnO2; more soluble Mn is relased than in the
uninoculated control medium to which is added sulfuric acid to bring the pH
to the level produced during growth of the bacterium. A similar phenomenon
occurs in the soil. Consequently, only part of the MnO2 solubilization can
be accounted for in terms of inorganic acid formation by Thiobacillus, and
pH is NOT
the sole cause of Mn+2 release under these conditions. The additional
biological effect may arise from the coupling of managanic reduction with
sulfur oxidation, that is, the Mn+4 serves as an alternate electron acceptor
for the bacteria.
Buckman and Brady's "Nature and Property of Soils" is a good reference for
those trying to think about soils versus aquaponic systems. I have it right
cheer. They report a representative value of 2.5%, or 25,000 ppm for iron
in a surface soil, and 2,500 ppm or 0.25% concentration for mangled knees.
Another book that I have here is , "Aqueous-Environmental Chemistry of
Metals", edited by Alan J. Rubin, Ann Arbor Press, which discusses, in part,
the Mn and Fe in aquatic and soil systems. It says the concentration range
of Mn in plants is anywhere from 15 to 100 ppm. (ug/gram). It also
emphasizes that the redox potential, or Eh, exerts similar effects, and
supplements the effects, on transition metals, as do the effects of pH, and
that iron and manganese are the most responsive to Eh changes. Lower redox
potentials favor the Fe2+ and Mn+2 valence states that are much more soluble
than the oxidized, higher, valence states. Since Mn is more easily
reducible than Fe, a significant amount of Mn+2 ion can accumulate in water
having a slightly higher redox potential than that in which Fe+2 will be
stable. Consequently, as redox potenials change in natural waters, there
may be disproportionate changes in the concentration of Mn as compared to
Fe. Also emphasized is the importance of humic and fulvic acids as natural
complexing or chelating agents found in natural waters (as I have ranted and
raved about before)
Hmmmmm
here is something
consider the following
freshwater fish
contain about 190 ppm iron and about 23 ppm manganese.
Adios, until next tome, and have a good weekend
Ted
. .
| Message 12
Subject: Manganese
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:41:19 -0500
Here is a little ditty about Mangled Knees, one of my favorite transition
metals in the periodic table. Did you know that it has about the most, the
greatest, number of different valence states of any other metal on the
table
periodic, that is? Nine documented valence states at least in the
lab. There's just something about that D-orbital that you gotta love, eh?
Tally Ho!
References: Microbial Ecology Fundamentals and Applications, by Atlas &
Bartha, and Introduction to Soil Microbiology by Alexander, and other
references listed elsewhere in the following text:
The Manganese Cycle
Manganese is cycled by microbes between its oxidized and reduced states
much like iron, except Mn occurs in the "ecosphere" either in the reduced
manganous (Mn2+) or in the oxidized manganic (Mn+4) state. The manganous
ion is stable under aerobic conditions at pH values of less than 5.5, but it
is also stable at higher pH values under anaerobic conditions. In the
presence of oxygen, at pH values greater than 8, the manganous ion is
spontaneously oxidized to the tetravalent manganic ion. The manganic ion
forms a dioxide (MnO2) that is insoluble in water. Manganic oxide is not
readily assimilated by plants.
In some marine and freshwater habitats, the precipitation of manganese forms
characteristic manganese nodules. Anyone remember reading about mining for
manganese nodules on the ocean floor? Anyone ever actually dredged up such
nodules off the ocean floor of your
.of this planet? Actually it may be
more accurate to say "ferromanganese nodules", but who's taking notes,
anyway? And if we started talking ferromanganese then we would have to start
drawing almost mystical connections in the great aquaponics web of science,
but I'm just too tired to do that right now, much to the
relief, no doubt, of those who choose to be buffeted, even tormented, by
long winds because they haven't discovered the delete key, or likely, there
own navels.
Gallionella, Metallogenium, Sphaerotilus, Leptothrix, Bacillus, Pseudomonas,
and Arthrobacter strains have been reported to oxidize Mn2+, whereas
metabolism in anaerobic environs and in varieties of soils by a wide variety
of bacteria result in Mn+4 reduction, increasing the solubility and mobility
of the resulting
Mn2+. Reduction of Mn4+ migh occur enzymatically, but if so, writes Atlas
and Bartha, the process is still obscure.
We have already discussed the idea that oxidation of elemental sulfur causes
a solubilization of soil minerals due to the sulfuric acid formed in that
process, and this applies to manganese as well. Manganese deficiency in
plants can be corrected in soils by the application of sulfur or thiosulfate
treatments. Plants can assimilate the divalent form, Mn2+ which is an
exchangeable cation and is water soluble, whereas the tetravalent Mn+4 form
is essentially insoluble.
In addition to the genera listed above, Alexander reports that
Corynebacterium, Klebsiella, Pedomicrobium, Cladosporium, Curvularia,
Fusarium, and Cephalosporium are bacteria and fungi that can actively
oxidize Mn. He writes that 5 to 15% of species in the total soil microflora
can oxidize Mn. He points out that deficiencies of Mn occur commonly in
soils rich in organic matter and at pH values of 6.5 to 8.0. Dilute MnSO4
solutions are sometimes sprayed on the foliage to reverse deficiencies, or
sulfur is added to the soil, or flooding the soil, to increase the amount of
assimilable Mn.
For manganese reduction, Alexander tells us that when glucose (a
carbohydrate source for the bugs) is added to a well-drained soil in which
the plants are deficient in Mn, the unavailable manganic oxides decrease
until the carb source has been entirely metabolized. And in pure bacterial
cultures, many kinds of bacteria can reduce MnO2 in the presence of an
oxidizable organic nutrient source, including Bacillus, Clostridium,
Micrococcus, and Pseudomonas
.interesting, eh?
Here is something cool to ponder: Alexander reports that an anomaly occurs
during the oxidation of elemental sulfur by Thiobacillus thiooxidans grown
in media containing MnO2; more soluble Mn is relased than in the
uninoculated control medium to which is added sulfuric acid to bring the pH
to the level produced during growth of the bacterium. A similar phenomenon
occurs in the soil. Consequently, only part of the MnO2 solubilization can
be accounted for in terms of inorganic acid formation by Thiobacillus, and
pH is NOT
the sole cause of Mn+2 release under these conditions. The additional
biological effect may arise from the coupling of managanic reduction with
sulfur oxidation, that is, the Mn+4 serves as an alternate electron acceptor
for the bacteria.
Buckman and Brady's "Nature and Property of Soils" is a good reference for
those trying to think about soils versus aquaponic systems. I have it right
cheer. They report a representative value of 2.5%, or 25,000 ppm for iron
in a surface soil, and 2,500 ppm or 0.25% concentration for mangled knees.
Another book that I have here is , "Aqueous-Environmental Chemistry of
Metals", edited by Alan J. Rubin, Ann Arbor Press, which discusses, in part,
the Mn and Fe in aquatic and soil systems. It says the concentration range
of Mn in plants is anywhere from 15 to 100 ppm. (ug/gram). It also
emphasizes that the redox potential, or Eh, exerts similar effects, and
supplements the effects, on transition metals, as do the effects of pH, and
that iron and manganese are the most responsive to Eh changes. Lower redox
potentials favor the Fe2+ and Mn+2 valence states that are much more soluble
than the oxidized, higher, valence states. Since Mn is more easily
reducible than Fe, a significant amount of Mn+2 ion can accumulate in water
having a slightly higher redox potential than that in which Fe+2 will be
stable. Consequently, as redox potenials change in natural waters, there
may be disproportionate changes in the concentration of Mn as compared to
Fe. Also emphasized is the importance of humic and fulvic acids as natural
complexing or chelating agents found in natural waters (as I have ranted and
raved about before)
Hmmmmm
here is something
consider the following
freshwater fish
contain about 190 ppm iron and about 23 ppm manganese.
Adios, until next tome, and have a good weekend
Ted
. .
| Message 13
Subject: Mangled Knees
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:42:27 -0500
Here is a little ditty about Mangled Knees, one of my favorite transition
metals in the periodic table. Did you know that it has about the most, the
greatest, number of different valence states of any other metal on the
table
periodic, that is? Nine documented valence states at least in the
lab. There's just something about that D-orbital that you gotta love, eh?
Tally Ho!
References: Microbial Ecology Fundamentals and Applications, by Atlas &
Bartha, and Introduction to Soil Microbiology by Alexander, and other
references listed elsewhere in the following text:
The Manganese Cycle
Manganese is cycled by microbes between its oxidized and reduced states
much like iron, except Mn occurs in the "ecosphere" either in the reduced
manganous (Mn2+) or in the oxidized manganic (Mn+4) state. The manganous
ion is stable under aerobic conditions at pH values of less than 5.5, but it
is also stable at higher pH values under anaerobic conditions. In the
presence of oxygen, at pH values greater than 8, the manganous ion is
spontaneously oxidized to the tetravalent manganic ion. The manganic ion
forms a dioxide (MnO2) that is insoluble in water. Manganic oxide is not
readily assimilated by plants.
In some marine and freshwater habitats, the precipitation of manganese forms
characteristic manganese nodules. Anyone remember reading about mining for
manganese nodules on the ocean floor? Anyone ever actually dredged up such
nodules off the ocean floor of your
.of this planet? Actually it may be
more accurate to say "ferromanganese nodules", but who's taking notes,
anyway? And if we started talking ferromanganese then we would have to start
drawing almost mystical connections in the great aquaponics web of science,
but I'm just too tired to do that right now, much to the
relief, no doubt, of those who choose to be buffeted, even tormented, by
long winds because they haven't discovered the delete key, or likely, there
own navels.
Gallionella, Metallogenium, Sphaerotilus, Leptothrix, Bacillus, Pseudomonas,
and Arthrobacter strains have been reported to oxidize Mn2+, whereas
metabolism in anaerobic environs and in varieties of soils by a wide variety
of bacteria result in Mn+4 reduction, increasing the solubility and mobility
of the resulting
Mn2+. Reduction of Mn4+ migh occur enzymatically, but if so, writes Atlas
and Bartha, the process is still obscure.
We have already discussed the idea that oxidation of elemental sulfur causes
a solubilization of soil minerals due to the sulfuric acid formed in that
process, and this applies to manganese as well. Manganese deficiency in
plants can be corrected in soils by the application of sulfur or thiosulfate
treatments. Plants can assimilate the divalent form, Mn2+ which is an
exchangeable cation and is water soluble, whereas the tetravalent Mn+4 form
is essentially insoluble.
In addition to the genera listed above, Alexander reports that
Corynebacterium, Klebsiella, Pedomicrobium, Cladosporium, Curvularia,
Fusarium, and Cephalosporium are bacteria and fungi that can actively
oxidize Mn. He writes that 5 to 15% of species in the total soil microflora
can oxidize Mn. He points out that deficiencies of Mn occur commonly in
soils rich in organic matter and at pH values of 6.5 to 8.0. Dilute MnSO4
solutions are sometimes sprayed on the foliage to reverse deficiencies, or
sulfur is added to the soil, or flooding the soil, to increase the amount of
assimilable Mn.
For manganese reduction, Alexander tells us that when glucose (a
carbohydrate source for the bugs) is added to a well-drained soil in which
the plants are deficient in Mn, the unavailable manganic oxides decrease
until the carb source has been entirely metabolized. And in pure bacterial
cultures, many kinds of bacteria can reduce MnO2 in the presence of an
oxidizable organic nutrient source, including Bacillus, Clostridium,
Micrococcus, and Pseudomonas
.interesting, eh?
Here is something cool to ponder: Alexander reports that an anomaly occurs
during the oxidation of elemental sulfur by Thiobacillus thiooxidans grown
in media containing MnO2; more soluble Mn is relased than in the
uninoculated control medium to which is added sulfuric acid to bring the pH
to the level produced during growth of the bacterium. A similar phenomenon
occurs in the soil. Consequently, only part of the MnO2 solubilization can
be accounted for in terms of inorganic acid formation by Thiobacillus, and
pH is NOT
the sole cause of Mn+2 release under these conditions. The additional
biological effect may arise from the coupling of managanic reduction with
sulfur oxidation, that is, the Mn+4 serves as an alternate electron acceptor
for the bacteria.
Buckman and Brady's "Nature and Property of Soils" is a good reference for
those trying to think about soils versus aquaponic systems. I have it right
cheer. They report a representative value of 2.5%, or 25,000 ppm for iron
in a surface soil, and 2,500 ppm or 0.25% concentration for mangled knees.
Another book that I have here is , "Aqueous-Environmental Chemistry of
Metals", edited by Alan J. Rubin, Ann Arbor Press, which discusses, in part,
the Mn and Fe in aquatic and soil systems. It says the concentration range
of Mn in plants is anywhere from 15 to 100 ppm. (ug/gram). It also
emphasizes that the redox potential, or Eh, exerts similar effects, and
supplements the effects, on transition metals, as do the effects of pH, and
that iron and manganese are the most responsive to Eh changes. Lower redox
potentials favor the Fe2+ and Mn+2 valence states that are much more soluble
than the oxidized, higher, valence states. Since Mn is more easily
reducible than Fe, a significant amount of Mn+2 ion can accumulate in water
having a slightly higher redox potential than that in which Fe+2 will be
stable. Consequently, as redox potenials change in natural waters, there
may be disproportionate changes in the concentration of Mn as compared to
Fe. Also emphasized is the importance of humic and fulvic acids as natural
complexing or chelating agents found in natural waters (as I have ranted and
raved about before)
Hmmmmm
here is something
consider the following
freshwater fish
contain about 190 ppm iron and about 23 ppm manganese.
Adios, until next tome, and have a good weekend
Ted
. .
| Message 14
Subject: Re: reality marketing
From: Mick
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:04:05 -0500
gutierrez-lagatta wrote:
> And massive regulatory oversight, I suggest you research this
> thoroughly before going ahead with any plans to selanything but live
> fish.> > logistic problems in keeping the fish alive for sale. If filleted,
> you have
> > temperature and hygiene concerns.
>
> Adriana
---Adriana,
As I posted, I have no experience with fish markets. I was offering what
I thought might be some drawbacks. Perhaps I worded it poorly.
My permits are for live sale and that's what I'll do.
Mick
. .
| Message 15
Subject: Manganese
From: "TGTX"
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:00:24 -0500
Sorry, folks, it looks like my recent phone problems (very mysterious and
random interuptions) combined with my general lack of focus today caused me
/ us / it / them to send that last post at least 3 times. I am truely
sorry. Just carve it out and burn it off like excess underbrush if you can.
Sorry to you digest folks especially, of which I am now one of youse guys.
Major Bummer.
Tedster
. .
| Message 16
Subject: Algae Control Products
From: "Thomas Short"
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 21:18:39 -0700
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. .
| Message 17
Subject: Re: Free floating algae problem
From: "Arlos"
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 17:50:43 -0700
Tom,
Most of my Koi pond customers have this when they reduce the daily
biofilter pump use and have not serviced the UV lamp. If you are
experiencing this in the city (SF) Then most likely it is introduced via
wind born and thrives. You might consider doing two things, one introduce
Japanese trap door snails as they eat not only decomposing feeds but fish
waste and graze on all forms of algae (I'm not sure about cynoalgae though).
they are live bearers and don't over populate. Depending on where you're
taking a sample in the water coulmn, ponds have dead spots that do not get
recirculation and you could have elevated nitrate levels. Also check your DO
levels. Make sure your biofilter is recharged occasioanly. I use only wet
sump types.
Arlos.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bagelhole1 'at' aol.com
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Friday, August 24, 2001 11:07 AM
Subject: Free floating algae problem
>Dear Brother and Sister Aquaponicuzzins,
> Hi, I love the feeling of this list serve, the best, I've seen. I'm
>struggling with my "verticle aquaponics", still haven't got it all right,
but
>I haven't given up. I've solved the ammonium nitrite problem, but now free
>floating algae is murking up the water and I have no solution. Any ideas? I
>get alot of direct sunlight, have a black pond liner. Its a rectangular
>raceway with a walkway in the middle, that you step over the water to get
to.
>Its about 1500 cu. gallons, about 2 feet deep. I'm trying to keep things
>simple as possible, because I want this to be a prototype for third world
>people.
> Mine is a part of a not for profit project, www.bagelhole.org.
>Thanks in advance,
>Tom
>
. .
| Message 18
Subject: Re: Wastewater reuse - Info
From: "Arlos"
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:38:41 -0700
Mike,
The waste water info was great but as they pointed out in their own
research. It is difficult to monitor and enforce at best. Having worked in
Mexico on rural water treatment projects, they are frustrating at best as
they tend to become abandoned or neglected. the bottled water industry as a
whole is regulated only on paper and I've never seen it enforced in the
field. Mexico's economy is in the toilet As the study pointed out I believe
the population is 72% urban and in no way able to handle the incredible
growth and consequent problems like sanitation. perhaps collection and
treatment using an aquatic system might offer some value added benefit and
then discharge into a system where treated waste water could be sent to
direct discharge. In Mexico city, housing in mountainous areas do not permit
inclution of a new infrastructure due to logistic not to mention
economics
. centralized treatment may have to be broken into almost
neighborhood treatment centers. Considering the climate of Mexico City,
water recovery is going to be of prime concern as the population has over
run the ability to replenish required potable water not to mention treated
waste water for irrigation.
What does this have to do with Aquaponics one might ask? In order to at
all first begin to consider an operation one has to have at least the basics
and this would be water. never take for granted that in the US we can still
turn on the tap or well and flow an inexhaustible supply of clean water. The
rest of world does not necessarily share the same luxury.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: dreadlox
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Sunday, August 26, 2001 12:33 AM
Subject: Wastewater reuse - Info
>Thought some of you may find this interesting
>
>Mike.
>
>
>Subject:
> Re: Wastewater reuse
> Date:
> Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:19:54 -0600
> From:
> Anne Peasey
>Reply-To:
> A list for discussion and information exchange relating to
>applied research in the water
>
> To:
> WATER-AND-SAN-APPLIED-RESEARCH 'at' JISCMAIL.AC.UK
>
>
>Dear Arturo Gleason,
>
>If you would like more information about the studies carried out in the
>Mezquital Valley, Hidalgo State,
>you may find helpful the following publications that are available on
>the internet,
>
>1) A review of policy and standards for wastewater reuse in agriculture:
>A Latin American perspective,
>(1999) by Anne Peasey, Ursula Blumenthal, Duncan Mara, and Guillermo
>Ruiz-Palacios
>
>http://www.lboro.ac.uk/well/studies/t68ii.pdf
>
>2) Guidelines for wastewater reuse in agriculture and aquaculture:
>recommended revisions based on new
>research evidence (1999) by Ursula Blumenthal, Anne Peasey, Guillermo
>Ruiz-Palacios and Duncan
>Mara
>
>http://www.lboro.ac.uk/well/studies/t68i.pdf
>
>3) Guidelines for the microbiological quality of treated wastewater used
>in agriculture: recommendations
>for revising WHO guidelines by Ursula J. Blumenthal, D. Duncan Mara,
>Anne Peasey, Guillermo Ruiz-
>Palacios, & Rebecca Stott: Bull WHO vol.78, no.9, 1104-1116.
>
>http://www.who.int/bulletin/pdf/2000/issue9/bu0741.pdf
>
>Yours sincerely
>
>Anne Peasey
>
>
>Dr Anne Peasey Department of Infectious Diseases Instituto Nacional de
>Ciencias Medicas y Nutricion SZ Vasco de Quiroga #15 Tlalpan Mexico DF
>CP14000 MEXICO
>Tel 00 52 5 655 9675 (direct) 00 52 5 573 1200 (extn 2420, 2421) Fax 00
>52 5 513 0010 email apeasey 'at' quetzal.innsz.mx
>--
> ><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
> JAMAICA, West Indies
>
. .
| Message 19
Subject: Re: Manganese
From: "Arlos"
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 20:12:09 -0700
Ted,
At least you sent it to the intended group
.LOL
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: TGTX
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Sunday, August 26, 2001 4:03 PM
Subject: Manganese
>Sorry, folks, it looks like my recent phone problems (very mysterious and
>random interuptions) combined with my general lack of focus today caused me
>/ us / it / them to send that last post at least 3 times. I am truely
>sorry. Just carve it out and burn it off like excess underbrush if you
can.
>Sorry to you digest folks especially, of which I am now one of youse
guys.>
>Major Bummer.
>
>Tedster
>
>
|
