Aquaponics Digest - Mon 09/03/01
Message 1: Re: inclined plate separators
from dreadlox
Message 2: long - delete if you're not into hardware - Pico Newsletter : September 2001
from "bennett"
Message 3: Biofilter as Carburator or BBQ Pit Analogy
from "TGTX"
Message 4: What's This?: A betatron?
from "TGTX"
Message 5: Re: Economics
from "bennett"
Message 6: Re: inclined plate separators
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 7: Re: inclined plate clarifiers - Math
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 8: Fw: [IBS-GEN] indoor fish production
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 9: Re: boiler heat
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 10: Re: boiler heat
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 11: Re: boiler heat
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 12: Re: boiler heat
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 13: Re: Economics
from kris book
Message 14: Re: boiler heat
from "Arlos"
Message 15: Re: boiler heat
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 16: Packaging wholesale basil
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 17: [Fwd: Re: pacu] long
from "Chris Jeppesen"
Message 18: Re: boiler heat
from kris book
| Message 1
Subject: Re: inclined plate separators
From: dreadlox
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 02:46:37 -0700
pantryman 'at' empireone.net wrote:
>
> Hi Mike.
.I can also describe a simple air lift to remove feces
> from the tank if you wish (using 4" pvc)
.we used it with this separator.> Bob
Thanks for the instruction mon!!
Yes please do send those other instructions!! :>
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
| Message 2
Subject: long - delete if you're not into hardware - Pico Newsletter : September 2001
From: "bennett"
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 07:15:58 -0400
Thought some of you might be interested in this.
Sorry to post something so long to the list.
>Contents
>=======
>
>1. New automotive product - wire piercing probes
>2. Advance warning : CMxxx range of products to be discontinued
>3. Application note - measuring radioactivity with DrDAQ
>4. Education news : Support for 'Advancing Physics' updated
>5. New science experiments
>6. New Linux drivers on the web
>7. PT-104 data logger special offer
>8. Latest software releases
>9. Back issues of this newsletter
>10. Subscribe / Unsubscribe Information
>
>===================================================
>1. New automotive product - wire piercing probes
>
>Our range of products for automotive use continues to grow. New this
>month are wire piercing probes. Details of these and our other
>products for automotive testing / diagnostics can be found at
>
>http://www.picotech.com/auto/
>
>
>====================================================
>2. Advance warning : CMxxx range of products to be discontinued
>
>The CMxxx range of signal conditioning products, along with the EL036
>signal conditioner adapter will be discontinued at the end of this
>year. The last date for purchases direct from Pico Technology is the
>10th December 2001. If you need to purchase additional signal
>conditioners, please check availability with your local distributor.
>
>====================================================
>3. Application note - measuring radioactivity with DrDAQ
>
>This application notes looks at how the DrDAQ data logger can be
>interfaced to a rate meter (made by Griffin) to measure
>radioactivity. The note can be found at
>
>http://www.picotech.com/applications.html
>
>====================================================
>4. Education news : Support for 'Advancing Physics' updated
>
>UK based education users of our products who are following the
>'Advancing Physics' A level course will be pleased to learn we have
>updated our support to include the A2 section of the course.
>
>Details can be found at our education web site at:
>http://www.picotech.com/education/
>
>====================================================
>5. New science experiments
>
>Our library of science experiments for data loggers and oscilloscopes
>continues to grow. New experiments this month include:
>
>+ Demonstrating the pressure law using a squash ball and DrDAQ
>+ Beat Patterns in sound waves
>
>See these and many other interesting and educational experiments at:
>http://www.picotech.com/experiments/
>
>====================================================
>6. New Linux drivers on the web
>
>In response to customer requests we have been increasing the number
>of Linux drivers available for our products. Drivers are
>available for the following products:
>
>ADC-200 / 212 / 216 range of oscilloscopes / spectrum analysers
>TC-08 thermocouple data logger
>TH-03 temperature data logger
>RH-02 temperature and humidity data logger
>ADC-16 voltage input data logger
>Enviromon network based data logger
>DrDAQ educational data logger
>
>Drivers can be downloaded free of charge from
>http://www.picotech.com/linux.html
>
>
>====================================================
>7. PT-104 data logger special offer
>
>This months special offer is for the PT-104 high accuracy temperature
>data logger.
>
>We have reduced the price of the PT-104 from GBP 349.00 to
>GBP 296.65 (approx $ 430 USD). This offer is only available for
>e-commerce orders through our web site. For details of the product
>and this special offer, follow the link below:
>http://www.picotech.com/news.html
>
>
>====================================================
>8. Latest software releases
>
>As soon as we release new software, it is made available for FREE
>download from our web site. To check which version you are using,
>start the software (PicoScope, PicoLog or EnviroMon) and select HELP |
>ABOUT. The current release is R5.07.4
>
>Software can be downloaded from:
>http://www.picotech.com/download.html
>
>(Note : the above web page also contains a link to our 'whats new'
>page which describes recent changes and additions to the software).
>
>
>====================================================
>9. Back issues of this newsletter
>
>Back issues of this newsletter are now available online at
>http://www.picotech.com/maillist.html
>
>
>====================================================
>10. Subscribe / Unsubscribe Information
>
>This e-mail list is an 'opt in' mailing list. Names are only added by
>request. Pico Technology will not pass your name on to any third
>party.
>
>To join Email mailing list send email to mailist 'at' picotech.co.uk
> with 'join mail list' as subject
>
>To leave Email mailing list send email to mailist 'at' picotech.co.uk
> with 'leave mail list' as subject
>
>
>====================================================
>Contact Details
>
>Pico Technology Limited
>The Mill House
>Cambridge Street
>St Neots
>PE19 1QB
>UK
>
>Tel +44 1480 396 395 (from outside UK)
> 01480 396 395 (UK)
>Fax +44 1480 396 296 (from outside UK)
> 01480 396 296 (UK)
>
>Email post 'at' picotech.com
>Web www.picotech.com (main pico web site)
> www.drdaq.com (drdaq web site)
>
>
>
| Message 3
Subject: Biofilter as Carburator or BBQ Pit Analogy
From: "TGTX"
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 06:18:50 -0500
>Ted,
>I really enjoyed this book about learning to make our industrial
>process mimic the slower processes of bio-organisms.
>
>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0688160999/qid=999481211/sr=1->1/ref
=sc_b_1/002-9983182-6971251
>Carolyn
Good Morning, Carolyn.
Thank you kindly for the reference.
I will check it out.
Ted
| Message 4
Subject: What's This?: A betatron?
From: "TGTX"
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 06:43:03 -0500
Hello
> Actually, my father was the first human to see 'synchrotron radiation'
discharging from
> an operating synchrotron in 1947. To see reference to his observation go
to
>
http://www.desy.de/pr-info/desyhome/html/presse/hginfos/hasylab/geschichte.e
n.html
> The experiment in 1947 was testing a new technique to inject a stream of
electrons
> into an accelerator (the accelerator or 'glass doughnut' was about 6-8' in
circumference
> and was powered by 70,000,000 volts).
Well, shut my mouth. This is part of a betatron?!?. I saw a picture of a
very small betatron, one of the first ever built, in one of those coffee
table books about the history of science
that "donut" accelerator was
literally just about the size of a donut that you eat
.wow
You know,
Bob, that material in the electron injector you have kinda looks like
copper-beryllium alloy, which is used in the mass-spectrometers I used to
operate
an excellent electron multiplier material
cascade effect and
all that, what? Cool.
I will surely read the article that you have sent us via that URL.
Fascinatin'. Betatrons are cool. I have speculated on what effects we
might see by magnetically creating a forced precession of the "electon
gyroscope" accelerated in a betatron. But then I am not a physicist, so
these speculations are more for my own amusement than of any objective
worth. I would probably play around with 70Meg Volts and make some
lightning bolts, which would only make me thor
ahem
and result in skin
cancer from X-rays caused by high energy electrons slamming into metal
things.
Kinda like what we get everytime we sit in front of a TV or a computer
monitor, only moreso. Yep, folks, soft X-rays everytime you log onto the
Internet and sit there soaking up that radiation for hours on end. That's
gotta be nearly as risky as taking a high altitude plane flight, would you
say?
What did I say before, about 3 millirem every time you fly the
friendly skies with all it's natural cosmic radiation? Yep, gotta ban all
computer monitors I guess
.stop the madness right now
cause it
represents a "risk", and we can't have any of that in our lives. No level
is "safe", right? Is that how the revisionist, deconstructionist, pretzel
logic goes?
Gotta get some coffee, toast and peanut butter. Haven't had my daily dose
of aflatoxin today. Gee, I wonder if aflatoxin and soft X-rays might have a
synergistic effect. Is there a toxicologist in the house? If so, do you
want some peanut butter on toast? I'll fix you some for
you
.heh,heh,heh.
Ted
Spinning those Electrons for Ya'!
| Message 5
Subject: Re: Economics
From: "bennett"
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 08:43:55 -0400
>For planning purposes, you could use this general rule of thumb for income:
>A 2000 square foot greenhouse, which includes walkway aisles and tank
>footprint space could bring $20,000 a year gross receipts in fish and/or
>plant sales. So, $10 per square foot per year, roughly. Please, don't even
>ask me about ratios of fish and plants and cost per pound of anything. I
>won't go there right now. These are fairly conservative, run of the mill
>estimates on what prices you can get, though
.whether it's run of the mill
>tomatoes, or herbs, or salad greens, or fish
>
Is $10 a square foot a number that's [somewhat consistantly] used in the
industry? Is that a number that "bankers" and planners usually use?
D.
| Message 6
Subject: Re: inclined plate separators
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 09:02:08 -0500
HI Bob,
Thanks for posting the instructions. I'm sure Mike will be loading
them up to the website for posterity's sake. We all look forward to
your description of a simple air
lift.
Carolyn
| Message 7
Subject: Re: inclined plate clarifiers - Math
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 09:32:39 -0500
Calling all list mathematicians and engineers:
Are there some known basic ratios to achieve good efficiencies these
clarifiers?
volume of plate area vs. volume of sludge collection area?
retention time? Bob, how many gallons per hour do you run through
yours?
how close can the individual plates be, before the sludge doesn't
settle, but remains entrained in the upflow?
Bob, do you have to manually clean yours periodically? The pictures
from this site that Mike sent look like the Square cone sludge
collector design allow the operators to just open the sludge valve.
Also, the size of the installation would seem to discourage manual
cleaning?
Carolyn
| Message 8
Subject: Fw: [IBS-GEN] indoor fish production
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 07:42:18 -0700
Any ideas?
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacky Foo"
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 9:43 PM
Subject: [IBS-GEN] indoor fish production
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rade Popovic [mailto:pora 'at' EUnet.yu]
>
> My idea is to buy a part of land, something about 3000m2. I understand
that
> eating-fish (African sheath-fish and eels) can be grown in plastic basins
inside
> "greenhouses". Process of growing is short and based on hi-tech.
> I'm interested in:
> 1. How much such fish-farm may cost me?
> 2. Possibilities of installing the equipment in Yugoslavia?
> 3. Training?
> 4. Providing growing matterial and selling fishes (co-operation)?
> 5. Equipment for manipulation with farm products?
> By my foreseeing I'll be able to invest, someting about 60.000DM, to
start.
>
> What you suggest me?
> Sincerely Yours
> Popovic Radmilo
>
| Message 9
Subject: Re: boiler heat
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 09:01:03 -0700
Arlos,
Why could he not use black poly tubing directly in the tanks? It is much
less money and at the low temperatures of the tanks it would not have a
thermal problem. He could also use low pressure or open loop.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arlos"
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: boiler heat
> Steven,
>
> Get a heat exchanger (Aquatic- Eco Systems in Fl is a good source,
> expensive but good systems. and don't emerse the copper directly in the
fish
> tank. Copper can poison your plants and your fish. A fish can handle a
> limited amount of immersion in a copper solution to rid the gills of
> parasites
Depending on your system size 130K can be over or undersized.
> The efficiency is in regards to fuel burn and not system efficiency. a
> quick and dirty off the top of my head would be, if you had a 35,000
gallon
> system and a 450K BTU heater, your heat rise would be roughly 13 deg F
per
> hour. Depending on heat sinks and exposed surface area, matching a heater
to
> system is not difficult but remember what we say here on the West Coast,
> "exactly how much does a free boat cost" Appliances are like cars, no one
> sells a perfectly good car. the most common reason you can buy an
> inexpensive system like you have is the heat exchanger cracked and can
not
> be repaired. Carbon monoxide is a huge problem especially if the system is
> indoors.
> Check your boiler sump. Every 1/2" of sediment can raise your fuel costs
> by 75%. Use an electronic descaler to keep calcite from precipitating on
the
> exchange tubes and plan a blow down on a regular basis. Don't dump anti
> scaling chemicals into your boiler they may end up in your aquaponics
> systems.
> I'd hate to see you loose an expensive investment.
>
> Arlos
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Medlock
> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Date: Sunday, September 02, 2001 3:06 PM
> Subject: boiler heat
>
>
> >I have just purchased a gas boiler system used. It also came with six
> large
> >iron registers, I am going to also set this up to run the hot water
through
> >a coil of copper in my fish growing tank. In theory heating the water
and
> >the growing beds causing a radiant heat source. It is 130,000btu I will
> >back it up with wood heat if needed. The furnace is only 5 years old and
> >supposed to be 90 percent efficient. I couldn't pass it up for $700.
> >Red
> >
> >
>
>
| Message 10
Subject: Re: boiler heat
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 09:01:44 -0700
Arlos,
Why could he not use black poly tubing directly in the tanks? It is much
less money and at the low temperatures of the tanks it would not have a
thermal problem. He could also use low pressure or open loop.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arlos"
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: boiler heat
> Steven,
>
> Get a heat exchanger (Aquatic- Eco Systems in Fl is a good source,
> expensive but good systems. and don't emerse the copper directly in the
fish
> tank. Copper can poison your plants and your fish. A fish can handle a
> limited amount of immersion in a copper solution to rid the gills of
> parasites
Depending on your system size 130K can be over or undersized.
> The efficiency is in regards to fuel burn and not system efficiency. a
> quick and dirty off the top of my head would be, if you had a 35,000
gallon
> system and a 450K BTU heater, your heat rise would be roughly 13 deg F
per
> hour. Depending on heat sinks and exposed surface area, matching a heater
to
> system is not difficult but remember what we say here on the West Coast,
> "exactly how much does a free boat cost" Appliances are like cars, no one
> sells a perfectly good car. the most common reason you can buy an
> inexpensive system like you have is the heat exchanger cracked and can
not
> be repaired. Carbon monoxide is a huge problem especially if the system is
> indoors.
> Check your boiler sump. Every 1/2" of sediment can raise your fuel costs
> by 75%. Use an electronic descaler to keep calcite from precipitating on
the
> exchange tubes and plan a blow down on a regular basis. Don't dump anti
> scaling chemicals into your boiler they may end up in your aquaponics
> systems.
> I'd hate to see you loose an expensive investment.
>
> Arlos
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Medlock
> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Date: Sunday, September 02, 2001 3:06 PM
> Subject: boiler heat
>
>
> >I have just purchased a gas boiler system used. It also came with six
> large
> >iron registers, I am going to also set this up to run the hot water
through
> >a coil of copper in my fish growing tank. In theory heating the water
and
> >the growing beds causing a radiant heat source. It is 130,000btu I will
> >back it up with wood heat if needed. The furnace is only 5 years old and
> >supposed to be 90 percent efficient. I couldn't pass it up for $700.
> >Red
> >
> >
>
>
| Message 11
Subject: Re: boiler heat
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 09:01:59 -0700
Arlos,
Why could he not use black poly tubing directly in the tanks? It is much
less money and at the low temperatures of the tanks it would not have a
thermal problem. He could also use low pressure or open loop.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arlos"
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: boiler heat
> Steven,
>
> Get a heat exchanger (Aquatic- Eco Systems in Fl is a good source,
> expensive but good systems. and don't emerse the copper directly in the
fish
> tank. Copper can poison your plants and your fish. A fish can handle a
> limited amount of immersion in a copper solution to rid the gills of
> parasites
Depending on your system size 130K can be over or undersized.
> The efficiency is in regards to fuel burn and not system efficiency. a
> quick and dirty off the top of my head would be, if you had a 35,000
gallon
> system and a 450K BTU heater, your heat rise would be roughly 13 deg F
per
> hour. Depending on heat sinks and exposed surface area, matching a heater
to
> system is not difficult but remember what we say here on the West Coast,
> "exactly how much does a free boat cost" Appliances are like cars, no one
> sells a perfectly good car. the most common reason you can buy an
> inexpensive system like you have is the heat exchanger cracked and can
not
> be repaired. Carbon monoxide is a huge problem especially if the system is
> indoors.
> Check your boiler sump. Every 1/2" of sediment can raise your fuel costs
> by 75%. Use an electronic descaler to keep calcite from precipitating on
the
> exchange tubes and plan a blow down on a regular basis. Don't dump anti
> scaling chemicals into your boiler they may end up in your aquaponics
> systems.
> I'd hate to see you loose an expensive investment.
>
> Arlos
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Medlock
> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Date: Sunday, September 02, 2001 3:06 PM
> Subject: boiler heat
>
>
> >I have just purchased a gas boiler system used. It also came with six
> large
> >iron registers, I am going to also set this up to run the hot water
through
> >a coil of copper in my fish growing tank. In theory heating the water
and
> >the growing beds causing a radiant heat source. It is 130,000btu I will
> >back it up with wood heat if needed. The furnace is only 5 years old and
> >supposed to be 90 percent efficient. I couldn't pass it up for $700.
> >Red
> >
> >
>
>
| Message 12
Subject: Re: boiler heat
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 09:03:02 -0700
Arlos,
Why could he not use black poly tubing directly in the tanks? It is much
less money and at the low temperatures of the tanks it would not have a
thermal problem. He could also use low pressure or open loop.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arlos"
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: boiler heat
> Steven,
>
> Get a heat exchanger (Aquatic- Eco Systems in Fl is a good source,
> expensive but good systems. and don't emerge the copper directly in the
fish
> tank. Copper can poison your plants and your fish. A fish can handle a
> limited amount of immersion in a copper solution to rid the gills of
> parasites
Depending on your system size 130K can be over or undersized.
> The efficiency is in regards to fuel burn and not system efficiency. a
> quick and dirty off the top of my head would be, if you had a 35,000
gallon
> system and a 450K BTU heater, your heat rise would be roughly 13 deg F
per
> hour. Depending on heat sinks and exposed surface area, matching a heater
to
> system is not difficult but remember what we say here on the West Coast,
> "exactly how much does a free boat cost" Appliances are like cars, no one
> sells a perfectly good car. the most common reason you can buy an
> inexpensive system like you have is the heat exchanger cracked and can
not
> be repaired. Carbon monoxide is a huge problem especially if the system is
> indoors.
> Check your boiler sump. Every 1/2" of sediment can raise your fuel costs
> by 75%. Use an electronic declare to keep calcite from precipitating on
the
> exchange tubes and plan a blow down on a regular basis. Don't dump anti
> scaling chemicals into your boiler they may end up in your aquaponics
> systems.
> I'd hate to see you loose an expensive investment.
>
> Arlos
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steven Medlock
> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Date: Sunday, September 02, 2001 3:06 PM
> Subject: boiler heat
>
>
> >I have just purchased a gas boiler system used. It also came with six
> large
> >iron registers, I am going to also set this up to run the hot water
through
> >a coil of copper in my fish growing tank. In theory heating the water
and
> >the growing beds causing a radiant heat source. It is 130,000btu I will
> >back it up with wood heat if needed. The furnace is only 5 years old and
> >supposed to be 90 percent efficient. I couldn't pass it up for $700.
> >Red
> >
> >
>
>
| Message 13
Subject: Re: Economics
From: kris book
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:46:57 -0600
Donna,
I don't think that you can use any certain number as a rule of thumb. Ten
dollars a square foot is a number that you can expect if you just follow
along at the prescribed (average) pace. I have never seen any numbers
published on aquaponics systems but, Hydro Gardens catalog (page 101) has
some production estimates for hydroponics, growing tomatoes and
cucumbers.
They say that tomatoes require from 4 to 5 sq. ft. per plant and that you
should get from 6 to 8.5 pounds per sq. ft. per year. Then they say that
is costs approximately 50 to 80 cents a pound to produce tomatoes. Next
they say that you can sell them for $.85 to $1.50 per pound. They then do
an average of all these numbers to arrive at $4.23 per sq. ft. net
income.
These numbers can be greatly increased as your skill levels increase.
With aquaponics you can produce vegetables continuously, not just one
growing season a year. Theoretically you can plant one seed and harvest
one plant every day of the year(or any combination that you choose). You
can grow vertically, which will increase the growing area. In the winter
you can add grow lights(a couple of hours a day will fool the plants
about what season it really is). When you raise the amount of
photosynthesis with the lights, you can use CO2 injection, which really
boosts production. You will probably need to foliar feed with compost
teas to get the full benefit of the light energy and the CO2 injection.
In nature everything has to be balanced. If you increase the light, you
also have to increase the water, nutrients, CO2, and heat to really
increase the yield. You can take clones from proven plants and that will
speed up fruit production immensely. When a clone finally grows roots, it
is just as mature as the plant that you took it from.
I grew vegetables year round at 6,000 ft. elevation for 7 years. I used
an organic semi-hydroponic system that I developed. I never did any true
tests comparing my system to regular hydroponics but, I feel that it is
safe to say that I easily doubled the yearly numbers from Hydro Gardens
and I probably tripled those numbers. Will the cost of these system
additions prove to be effective, I don't know. My only concern was to see
how much food I could produce in a small area and to learn to produce
veggies without the sun if that ever became necessary.
kris
| Message 14
Subject: Re: boiler heat
From: "Arlos"
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:24:43 -0700
Brent,
Plastic does not have very good thermo transfer property
Internal temps
in a closed loop boiler system can reach near 210 deg F. Heat exchangers
are still the best method to heat tank water. Only pools and spas have open
loop systems and even then filtration is up stream.Joining poly tube is
generally a barbed fitting though there are transition fittings made from
HDPE, MDPE and LDPE to FIP and MIP
Considering the amount of suspended
solids in the water column at any given time there is always the possibility
of having the solids drop into a boilers sump. A filter would have to be
used. Boilers that produce steam have a return collector sump with a
"Hartford Loop" to condense vapor in a single and two pipe system.
Heat exchangers have a lot of surface area, a coil of poly pipe does not.
A radiator in a car has enormous surface area as does a transformer heat
sink (lots of fins) both are designed for efficiency of heat dispersal.
Depending on the pump used, length of exposed surface area and material to
which heat is transferred, heat transfer into water alone would not be
efficient using a coil alone. every foot in length or rise is going to
represent a net loss of mechanical energy to pump through a coil. heat
exchangers are already designed with these perameters to act as efficiently
as possible. Its always good to go with what works.
As stated before, depending on the heat sink of the tank used and exposed
surface area. The cost of maintaining 80 deg F water can be determined with
any system as part of a business plan in determining hard costs. Heat loss
from exposed surface area is rapid and maintaining a steady temp within a
few degrees 24/7 is important and can be expensive especially if trying to
maintain this is a northern winter climate.
If you were to leave a length of say 100 ft of black poly pipe in full sun
with the sun at its highest point and it were full of water, you could still
pick it up with your bare hand even though the temp inside will be over 140
deg F If you were to pick up a lenght of say copper pipe or any metal, you
would burn your hand because the metal transfers heat more effectively. Yes
poly is cheap and light but not nearly as efficient
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Bingham
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Monday, September 03, 2001 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: boiler heat
>Arlos,
> Why could he not use black poly tubing directly in the tanks? It is much
>less money and at the low temperatures of the tanks it would not have a
>thermal problem. He could also use low pressure or open loop.
>Brent
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Arlos"
>
>Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 7:02 PM
>Subject: Re: boiler heat
>
>
>> Steven,
>>
>> Get a heat exchanger (Aquatic- Eco Systems in Fl is a good source,
>> expensive but good systems. and don't emerge the copper directly in the
>fish
>> tank. Copper can poison your plants and your fish. A fish can handle a
>> limited amount of immersion in a copper solution to rid the gills of
>> parasites
Depending on your system size 130K can be over or
undersized.
>> The efficiency is in regards to fuel burn and not system efficiency. a
>> quick and dirty off the top of my head would be, if you had a 35,000
>gallon
>> system and a 450K BTU heater, your heat rise would be roughly 13 deg F
>per
>> hour. Depending on heat sinks and exposed surface area, matching a heater
>to
>> system is not difficult but remember what we say here on the West Coast,
>> "exactly how much does a free boat cost" Appliances are like cars, no
one
>> sells a perfectly good car. the most common reason you can buy an
>> inexpensive system like you have is the heat exchanger cracked and can
>not
>> be repaired. Carbon monoxide is a huge problem especially if the system
is
>> indoors.
>> Check your boiler sump. Every 1/2" of sediment can raise your fuel
costs
>> by 75%. Use an electronic declare to keep calcite from precipitating on
>the
>> exchange tubes and plan a blow down on a regular basis. Don't dump anti
>> scaling chemicals into your boiler they may end up in your aquaponics
>> systems.
>> I'd hate to see you loose an expensive investment.
>>
>> Arlos
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steven Medlock
>> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>> Date: Sunday, September 02, 2001 3:06 PM
>> Subject: boiler heat
>>
>>
>> >I have just purchased a gas boiler system used. It also came with six
>> large
>> >iron registers, I am going to also set this up to run the hot water
>through
>> >a coil of copper in my fish growing tank. In theory heating the water
>and
>> >the growing beds causing a radiant heat source. It is 130,000btu I
will
>> >back it up with wood heat if needed. The furnace is only 5 years old
and
>> >supposed to be 90 percent efficient. I couldn't pass it up for $700.
>> >Red
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
| Message 15
Subject: Re: boiler heat
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 17:12:17 -0700
I believe every thing you say BUT , You can put one simple mixing valve in
the line from the boiler and bring down the heat below 210 . You can buy
thousands of feet of poly for the price of the cheapest heat exchanger. The
water going through the heat exchanger must be filtered or it will foul it
plugged shut. Many times the cheapest and simplest KISS system is best. What
is the total cost of the system you propose?
Brent
PS
The federal prison out our way just signed bids on there new 12 mile 12"
water line. It is 100% bell end PVC. No HDPE.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arlos"
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: boiler heat
> Brent,
>
> Plastic does not have very good thermo transfer property
snip
| Message 16
Subject: Packaging wholesale basil
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 19:40:37 -0500
This question is for those of you who have sold basil in institutional
packages through wholesalers:
What packing type and size did you find works best for basil intended
for restaurant use? What packaging/handling methods minimize crushing
while in transit from you to the wholesaler, in the wholesaler's
warehouses and in transit to the end-user?
I believe that sealing basil in the bag preserves freshness better
than open or ventilated bags which are the norm for wholesale basil.
But most zipper-type or heat-sealed bags tend to crush the product.
Are there any other good options, like a reclosable gusseted bag?
I received one suggestion from another source to go with 8 oz.
packages vs. 1 #, what do you guys suggest?
Adriana
| Message 17
Subject: [Fwd: Re: pacu] long
From: "Chris Jeppesen"
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 18:18:37 -0700
>Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 22:39:12 +0200
> Magnus van der Meer Chris Jeppesen Re: pacu
>Hi Chris,
>Concerning macropomum: fish are reproduced by hormone induction when in captivity. Adults are
kept outside in ponds (mixed male and female) and checked regularly by canulating them. If
females were found with almost mature eggs, the last phase of development can be induced by
hormones, females two injections and males one. However, if egg development of the females is
>insufficient, reproduction will never take place and hormones may even kill the fish. Although
indigenous fish of Brazil, laso there Colossoma farmers still seem to keep their fish in ponds
and only by checking the fish one by one they can determine whether reproduction is possible or
not. In nature they spawn ofcourse spontaniously, but as soon as you keep them in
>ponds, reproduction can only be triggered by hormones and both eggs and sperm have to be
stripped off.
>I worked with Colossoma in Costa Rica. Sometimes we found that males and females did not
mature at the same time: when there were eggs we could not get any milk, when males were ready
there were no eggs. I assume that still further outside their natural range you may experience
similar problems. In nature colossoma spawning is probably triggered by waterlevel and
>waterquality changes (water temperature seems to be year round in the 28 - 29°C range). I know
people tried to stimulate spawning by constructions simulating rain falling into the water. But
never heard something about possitive results.
>After hatching the eggs in a incubator, there were still two hurdles: first was to get them to
start feeding. We used artemia, but this is in fact to large as collossoma starting to feed
weight less then 1 mg. We tried other feed (smaller life feed) but never had any success:
artemia resulted in poor but still the best survival figures. Next probblem was then to wean
>the fish at 60 to 80 mg from life feed to pelleted feed. Many times we had a lot of mortality
during this period. Once they start to eat the dry feed, they grow very fast.
>I think transporting of 80 mg fry is not necessarely that costly. Maybe organisation of
transport may be the most difficult part. I have no experience with this kind of transports,
but it might be important that fry remains as short as possible without feed (they have to be
restrained at least half a day before put on transport in closed plastic bags, 50% water and
50%
>oxygen).
>For you the closest source of Colossoma might be Honduras, Panama or Colombia. I assume that
most production of macropomum in ponds takes place in Brazil and fish from there may therefore
have best properties to be reproduced under labaratory conditions (only my own supposition,
have no confirmation).
>Hope your business will turn out right. Success,
>magnus
>
>Chris Jeppesen wrote:
>
>> Dear Magnus van der Meer
>>
>> My interest in pacu is for aquaculture. I have two 800 gal. tanks in a greenhouse. It is a
totaly recirculating system using the fish waste as fertilizer for a plant crop. At this time
I have 57 pacu, 12
>> (Colossoma bidens) and 45 (Colossoma brachypomus). If I can keep these alive and healthy
though the winter (U.S.A. central Utah) I would like to find a source for (Colossoma
macropomum). Since this may be extremly costly I need to learn more about the reproduction of
this fish. There are a few others in the U.S. that are interested in this fish for the same
purpose.
>> I thank You for any advice or guidance you can give.
>> Chris Jeppesen.
>> P.S. I'm not a scientist, just a farmer.
>>
>> >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:42:51 +0200
>> > Magnus van der Meer pacu
>> >Dear Chris Jeppesen,
>> >I have worked several years on the nutrition of pacu (Colossoma
>> >macropomum) and published a book on it: feeds and feeding strategies for
>> >Colossoma macropomum. You can find there a lot of information about feed
>> >composition and feeding regimes (when and how many times to feed the
>> >fish). Research was carried out in Costa Rica. We also reproduced fish,
>> >not only to stock our own ponds and to carry out experiments, but also
>> >for sale for farmers. Sometimes a few thousand fry seemed to have been
>> >shipped to Europa. When the fish is small it has a nice dot on its side
>> >and is therfor apparently considered as ornamental.
>> >What is the purpose you want to use your fish for?
>> >Best regards,
>> >Magnus van der Meer
>> >
>> >COSTA
>> >- consultancy and training in aquaculture -
>> >Plevierenweide 38
>> >6708 BW Wageningen
>> >The Netherlands
>> >Tel: +31 6 5122.9362 or +31 317 415699 (home)
>> >E-mail: mbvdmeer 'at' wxs.nl
>>
| Message 18
Subject: Re: boiler heat
From: kris book
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 19:32:40 -0600
Brent,
I really like that word, cheapest, if it doesn't end up costing me more
later.Please tell us more about your ideas for heating with boilers and
black poly tubing. There is quite a distance between 2-50' greenhouses
(250'), I plan to put a generator/boiler/compost/vermiculture/mushroom
building in between. Do you have any ideas on how to best insulate black
poly tubing buried 4' in the ground(frost line is almost 3' here in So.
Colorado).
kris
|
