Aquaponics Digest - Tue 09/04/01
Message 1: Re: English
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 2: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED:-Monitoring hardware & thank you
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 3: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED:-Monitoring hardware & thank you
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 4: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED:-Monitoring hardware & thank you
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 5: Kris - another question Re: Economics
from "bennett"
Message 6: Re: boiler heat
from "Arlos"
Message 7: Re: boiler heat
from "gerry magnuson"
Message 8: heat exchangers and collectors
from Carolyn Hoagland
Message 9: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
from "gerry magnuson"
Message 10: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
from "Arlos"
Message 11: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
from "F.Carl Uhland"
Message 12: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
from "Arlos"
Message 13: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
from "F.Carl Uhland"
Message 14: Useful link
from Andrei Calciu
Message 15: Re: Useful link
from "Arlos"
Message 16: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
from "Thomas Short"
Message 17: boiler
from "Steven Medlock"
Message 18: Re: boiler
from "Arlos"
Message 19: Re: Useful link
from "Frank Stancato"
Message 20: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
from "gerry magnuson"
Message 21: Re: boiler
from "Arlos"
Message 22: unsubscribe
from "Arlos"
Message 23: Re: pacu] long
from dreadlox
| Message 1
Subject: Re: English
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 00:25:34 -0500
Chill Man! I was kidding. :)
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "gerry magnuson"
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: English
steve, uall should know that harrass is correctly pronounced both ways, my
uall is my dialect coming from ha-why-ya, is my identity moniker as is
coffeecowboy
.when uall take your foot out and replace it with the other,
what do uall do with the toejam?
>From: "STEVE SPRING"
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>
>Subject: English
>Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 23:02:58 -0500
>
>Hi (a little comedy here),
>
>(on the truthful side) Another one of my pet peeves is the pronunciation of
>the word"harass". (Hope I have that spelled right.) For years, decades,
>etc,
>it has been har ass'. With the accent on the last syllible. But, all of a
>sudden, since "what's her name" sued judge "what's his name", it has become
>har' ass
.with the accent on the first syllible. Drives me nuts.
>
>But, do you know why Bill Clinton kept failing the spelling test? He kept
>insisting that "harass" was two words. (Get it? Get it?)
>
>And, I'm still trying to understand how you "axe" somebody something. Down
>South, if you had to "axe" somebody, they were dead meat.
>
>Just a little levity
.Steve
>
>
| Message 2
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED:-Monitoring hardware & thank you
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 00:39:06 -0500
I agree. There are some great tinkerers out there who can put a wheelbarrow
together with a sprinkler and "make it fly". Regrettably, most of us are not
like that. Then there are those of us who are just "cheap" and refuse to
spend the money when we think we can do it ourselves cheaper.
I mean, I wrapped my tanks in insulation ($$), used a space heater to heat
the entire building (mucho $$) because I was just not going to spend that
+$200 for an in-tank heater. Well, desperation gave away to futility and I
bought that in-tank heater. Now, I control the water temp the n'th degree
without worries.
As someone said about a year ago and as Bruce reitterated only a few days
ago, when you start this venture, your learning curve is straight up.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED:-Monitoring hardware & thank you
OK,
I got to understand one thing. Is it a policy of the members of this to do
everything the hard way and as el cheapo as possible or is it allowed to we
to do it right once in a while?
Why on earth would anybody want to jury right a whole bunch of oddball
hardware to monitor a few basic parameters, when a whole array of such
sensors are readily available commercially, are made to high standards and
tolerances and are highly accurate?
Just a thought
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
| Message 3
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED:-Monitoring hardware & thank you
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 00:40:06 -0500
I thought you did just fine.
SS
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED:-Monitoring hardware & thank you
I only wish I had proofed what I wrote before hitting the send button. The
text sounds like it was written by an illiterate moron on drugs. I can do
better, no, really.
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
"Arlos"
tics.com> cc:
Sent by: Subject: Re: SEC:
UNCLASSIFIED:-Monitoring
aquaponics-request 'at' t hardware & thank you
ownsqr.com
08/29/01 10:10 AM
Please respond to
aquaponics
Andrei,
You said it all. It would take an individual years and untold $$$ to be
able to come close to what is relatively in expensive. Between Hach, Signet
and a few other companies I can spec, design and install with no worries.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrei Calciu
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 6:56 AM
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED:-Monitoring hardware & thank you
>
>OK,
>
>I got to understand one thing. Is it a policy of the members of this to do
>everything the hard way and as el cheapo as possible or is it allowed to
we
>to do it right once in a while?
>
>Why on earth would anybody want to jury right a whole bunch of oddball
>hardware to monitor a few basic parameters, when a whole array of such
>sensors are readily available commercially, are made to high standards and
>tolerances and are highly accurate? Sure, you will blow a couple of
hundred
>bucks more, but you will have a reliable instrument for years and years,
>while the jury-rigged alternative may or may not always work, may or may
>not be accurate, may or may not need extensive fiddling with it, thus
>eating up precious time (and time is money) that could be spent improving
>production or performing basic maintenance on equipment thus avoiding
>costly service calls from professionals.
>
>Just a thought
>-_______________
>Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
>NEC America, Inc.
>14040 Park Center Dr.
>Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>
>Voice: 703-834-4273
>Fax: 703-787-6613
>
>This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
>intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
>message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
>recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
>contents to any other person.
>
>
>
| Message 4
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED:-Monitoring hardware & thank you
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 00:47:24 -0500
Hi Gene,
Just a thought. Maybe subscribe to Aquaponics Journal & Fish Farming News.
Both are excellent publications. Aquaponics Journal will have 4 or 5
indepth articles and Fish Farming News is an actual newspaper that has a lot
of info on fish farming in general. Both have excellent references of people
that you can call, email or whatever for all kinds of information.
Just FYI
.Steve :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Batten"
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED:-Monitoring hardware & thank you
Arlos,
In a previous email you mention "Hach, Signet and a few other companies". I
assume that these companies offer monitoring hardware and you were making
the point that it is better to buy from them than to make your own. For
those of us on this list who are less enlightened in these matters, could
you provide more information on sources of monitoring systems and hardware.
Maybe even list web site addresses if possible.
Thanks,
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arlos"
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED:-Monitoring hardware & thank you
> Andrei,
>
> You said it all. It would take an individual years and untold $$$ to be
> able to come close to what is relatively in expensive. Between Hach,
Signet
> and a few other companies I can spec, design and install with no worries.
>
> Arlos
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrei Calciu
> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 6:56 AM
> Subject: Re: SEC: UNCLASSIFIED:-Monitoring hardware & thank you
>
>
> >
> >OK,
> >
> >I got to understand one thing. Is it a policy of the members of this to
do
> >everything the hard way and as el cheapo as possible or is it allowed to
we
> >to do it right once in a while?
> >
> >Why on earth would anybody want to jury right a whole bunch of oddball
> >hardware to monitor a few basic parameters, when a whole array of such
> >sensors are readily available commercially, are made to high standards
and
> >tolerances and are highly accurate? Sure, you will blow a couple of
hundred
> >bucks more, but you will have a reliable instrument for years and years,
> >while the jury-rigged alternative may or may not always work, may or may
> >not be accurate, may or may not need extensive fiddling with it, thus
> >eating up precious time (and time is money) that could be spent improving
> >production or performing basic maintenance on equipment thus avoiding
> >costly service calls from professionals.
> >
> >Just a thought
> >-_______________
> >Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
> >NEC America, Inc.
> >14040 Park Center Dr.
> >Herndon, VA 20171-3227
> >
> >Voice: 703-834-4273
> >Fax: 703-787-6613
> >
> >This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
> >intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
> >message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
> >recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
> >contents to any other person.
> >
> >
> >
>
| Message 5
Subject: Kris - another question Re: Economics
From: "bennett"
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 08:05:29 -0400
>I grew vegetables year round at 6,000 ft. elevation for 7 years. I used
>an organic semi-hydroponic system that I developed.
Could you please elaborate on this "semi-hydroponic system" a bit?
Thanks.
Donna
| Message 6
Subject: Re: boiler heat
From: "Arlos"
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 08:04:37 -0700
Brent,
Do a little research on heat exchange for the layman and try and
understand the principles.
Boilers have temp controls so a mixing valve is really not the issue. I
would like Steven to post the size of tank,energy costs(pump), volume of
gas or oil used, cost per therm of fuel, or watt, pump size, total length of
poly and what diameter and record temperatures, heat rise and hours of
operation and photos if possible
At the hobby level there is a lot of latitude for playing with ideas. This
is fine but industry can't afford to SWAG (scientific wild assed guess). I
look at cost by lifecycle engineering or cost of combining design
engineering, material. installation ,O&M and service life.
You are right, cheap is good but not at the expense of high operating
costs
If a 1000' of poly pipe costs say $45. How much would it cost to push
water through a 1' diameter poly tube coil in a tank, looking at the cost
per watt of the pump and cost per BTU of fuel to heat the boiler. What size
pump is need, what is the friction loss, coefficiency? More importantly
what's the heat exchnage?
Manufactures and suppliers can supply info concerning heat/ pressure
,Including the most recent question about insulation below a frost line.
typically that would be in a dual wall pipe specific to the application
not
running pipe with foam insulation round it
.Is it more economical to have a
heat system in each building or centralize the heating? It helps to do the
math before starting a project.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Bingham
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Monday, September 03, 2001 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: boiler heat
>I believe every thing you say BUT , You can put one simple mixing valve in
>the line from the boiler and bring down the heat below 210 . You can buy
>thousands of feet of poly for the price of the cheapest heat exchanger. The
>water going through the heat exchanger must be filtered or it will foul it
>plugged shut. Many times the cheapest and simplest KISS system is best.
What
>is the total cost of the system you propose?
>Brent
>PS
>The federal prison out our way just signed bids on there new 12 mile 12"
>water line. It is 100% bell end PVC. No HDPE.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Arlos"
>
>Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 11:24 AM
>Subject: Re: boiler heat
>
>
>> Brent,
>>
>> Plastic does not have very good thermo transfer property
>snip
>
>
| Message 7
Subject: Re: boiler heat
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 05:12:43 -1000
why not just get a 40 gallon water heater and a used water heater for
storage, and circulate with your fish tanks?
.ng or propane would be cheap
to run, as the thermostat can be set at a decent temp
.could even put a
shower spiggot to add oxygen into the water.
>From: "Arlos"
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>
>Subject: Re: boiler heat
>Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 08:04:37 -0700
>
>Brent,
>
> Do a little research on heat exchange for the layman and try and
>understand the principles.
> Boilers have temp controls so a mixing valve is really not the issue. I
>would like Steven to post the size of tank,energy costs(pump), volume of
>gas or oil used, cost per therm of fuel, or watt, pump size, total length
>of
>poly and what diameter and record temperatures, heat rise and hours of
>operation and photos if possible
> At the hobby level there is a lot of latitude for playing with ideas.
>This
>is fine but industry can't afford to SWAG (scientific wild assed guess). I
>look at cost by lifecycle engineering or cost of combining design
>engineering, material. installation ,O&M and service life.
> You are right, cheap is good but not at the expense of high operating
>costs
If a 1000' of poly pipe costs say $45. How much would it cost to
>push
>water through a 1' diameter poly tube coil in a tank, looking at the cost
>per watt of the pump and cost per BTU of fuel to heat the boiler. What size
>pump is need, what is the friction loss, coefficiency? More importantly
>what's the heat exchnage?
> Manufactures and suppliers can supply info concerning heat/ pressure
>,Including the most recent question about insulation below a frost line.
>typically that would be in a dual wall pipe specific to the
>application
not
>running pipe with foam insulation round it
.Is it more economical to have
>a
>heat system in each building or centralize the heating? It helps to do the
>math before starting a project.
>
>Arlos
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brent Bingham
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Date: Monday, September 03, 2001 5:15 PM
>Subject: Re: boiler heat
>
>
> >I believe every thing you say BUT , You can put one simple mixing valve
>in
> >the line from the boiler and bring down the heat below 210 . You can buy
> >thousands of feet of poly for the price of the cheapest heat exchanger.
>The
> >water going through the heat exchanger must be filtered or it will foul
>it
> >plugged shut. Many times the cheapest and simplest KISS system is best.
>What
> >is the total cost of the system you propose?
> >Brent
> >PS
> >The federal prison out our way just signed bids on there new 12 mile 12"
> >water line. It is 100% bell end PVC. No HDPE.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Arlos"
> >
> >Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 11:24 AM
> >Subject: Re: boiler heat
> >
> >
> >> Brent,
> >>
> >> Plastic does not have very good thermo transfer property
> >snip
> >
> >
>
| Message 8
Subject: heat exchangers and collectors
From: Carolyn Hoagland
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:35:43 -0500
>Arlos wrote:
>A radiator in a car has enormous surface area as does
>a transformer heat sink (lots of fins) both are designed
>for efficiency of heat dispersal.
So if someone is looking for an inexpensive heat exchanger (or
collection device for concentrated solar rays, could they use a junked
radiator that has been cleaned/flushed out? How does its ability to
withstand the pressure compare with a heat exchanger designed for
boiler use? Does the outside surface of a car or trunk radiator made
of materials that could contaminate the fish water?
Carolyn
| Message 9
Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 05:44:39 -1000
run copper coils on your roof, install a couple of backflow peventers, use a
grundfos pump, have the water pipes of copper coils submerged in a 55 gallon
drum to heat water to be put into the fish tanks
.forget your radiators,
not even good for making shine.
>From: Carolyn Hoagland
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Subject: heat exchangers and collectors
>Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 10:35:43 -0500
>
> >Arlos wrote:
> >A radiator in a car has enormous surface area as does
> >a transformer heat sink (lots of fins) both are designed
> >for efficiency of heat dispersal.
>
>So if someone is looking for an inexpensive heat exchanger (or
>collection device for concentrated solar rays, could they use a junked
>radiator that has been cleaned/flushed out? How does its ability to
>withstand the pressure compare with a heat exchanger designed for
>boiler use? Does the outside surface of a car or trunk radiator made
>of materials that could contaminate the fish water?
>
>Carolyn
| Message 10
Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
From: "Arlos"
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 09:26:47 -0700
Carolyn,
Good question about use of a radiator but not the right material. there is
a reason all fresh water heat exchangers are made from stainless steel and
marine are made from titanium. there are basically two type of heat
exchangers1. coil in tube 2. distribution grid (solar [ fins to gain heat
sink] and auto radiators [fins to disperse heat] use this). Both are
enclosed and flow of fluid to be heated is kept in contact untill temp is
achieved, this is done untill temp is achieved by restricting flow and or
calculating total heat rise in recirculation. Use of solar will give a
certain net gain but loss in costs to pump to a solar array. Bradford White
makes a heat exchange type water heater but use of this is not efficient and
not appropriate for heating a tank unless you have unlimited funds and don't
pay for fuel or electricity and thats what we're trting to achieve here,
efficiency.
A little primer on heaters vs. boilers. Heaters are 70% efficient and
boilers are 80% efficient. Both have an inlet rating and an outlet rating
which is about 20-30% difference. That heat loss goes up the flue and it's
called waste heat and even some that can be recovered. At the Monterey bay
Aquarium we partially heat a million gallon tank using ambient heat from
visitors (people give off heat in respiration), 4000 people in a day can
generate a lot of heat and this can be recovered as we did to help raise
the heat nearly 15 deg F using heat exchangers.
The heat loss from a clothes dryer is tremendous and could be recovered to
heat a room. The idea is to use a heat source as efficiently and as cost
effectively as possible. Remember it's about how much it takes to raise a
fish for market without spending the day worrying about the array of
hardware running all over your property.
I'll post a lot on info tonight to do a quick calculation using basic high
school math to determine heat costs and needs. This should put a lot of
"what if's" to rest.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Carolyn Hoagland
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 8:35 AM
Subject: heat exchangers and collectors
>>Arlos wrote:
>>A radiator in a car has enormous surface area as does
>>a transformer heat sink (lots of fins) both are designed
>>for efficiency of heat dispersal.
>
>So if someone is looking for an inexpensive heat exchanger (or
>collection device for concentrated solar rays, could they use a junked
>radiator that has been cleaned/flushed out? How does its ability to
>withstand the pressure compare with a heat exchanger designed for
>boiler use? Does the outside surface of a car or trunk radiator made
>of materials that could contaminate the fish water?
>
>Carolyn
>
| Message 11
Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
From: "F.Carl Uhland"
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 12:38:00 -0400
I would be hesitant about using copper plumbing in a recirculation system.
Carl
At 05:44 04-09-01 -1000, you wrote:
>run copper coils on your roof, install a couple of backflow peventers, use=
=20
>a grundfos pump, have the water pipes of copper coils submerged in a 55=20
>gallon drum to heat water to be put into the fish tanks
.forget your=20
>radiators, not even good for making shine.
F. Carl Uhland, DVM
Facult=E9 M=E9decine V=E9t=E9rinaire
University of Montreal
3200 rue Sicotte
Saint-Hyacinthe (Qu=E9bec) J2S 7C6
T=E9l: 450-773-8521; ext: 8317
Fax: 450-778-8116
Carl.F.Uhland 'at' umontreal.ca
| Message 12
Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
From: "Arlos"
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:49:58 -0700
Carl,
I had mentioned this in the first response and to add another note in
regard to placing copper coils in a steel 55 gallon drum, it will to create
electrolysis. This will begin the destruction of any steel and the copper.
This is the same thing that happens in a house when steel and copper are
combined on the potable water system.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: F.Carl Uhland
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
I would be hesitant about using copper plumbing in a recirculation system.
Carl
At 05:44 04-09-01 -1000, you wrote:
>run copper coils on your roof, install a couple of backflow peventers, use
>a grundfos pump, have the water pipes of copper coils submerged in a 55
>gallon drum to heat water to be put into the fish tanks
.forget your
>radiators, not even good for making shine.
F. Carl Uhland, DVM
Faculté Médecine Vétérinaire
University of Montreal
3200 rue Sicotte
Saint-Hyacinthe (Québec) J2S 7C6
Tél: 450-773-8521; ext: 8317
Fax: 450-778-8116
Carl.F.Uhland 'at' umontreal.ca
| Message 13
Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
From: "F.Carl Uhland"
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 14:03:02 -0400
Sorry about that, sometimes I miss a thread or two.
Carl
At 10:49 04-09-01 -0700, you wrote:
>Carl,
>
> I had mentioned this in the first response and to add another note in
>regard to placing copper coils in a steel 55 gallon drum, it will to create
>electrolysis. This will begin the destruction of any steel and the copper.
>This is the same thing that happens in a house when steel and copper are
>combined on the potable water system.
>
>Arlos
>-----Original Message-----
>From: F.Carl Uhland
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Date: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 9:47 AM
>Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
>
>
>I would be hesitant about using copper plumbing in a recirculation system.
>
>Carl
>
>At 05:44 04-09-01 -1000, you wrote:
>
> >run copper coils on your roof, install a couple of backflow peventers,=
use
> >a grundfos pump, have the water pipes of copper coils submerged in a 55
> >gallon drum to heat water to be put into the fish tanks
.forget your
> >radiators, not even good for making shine.>
>F. Carl Uhland, DVM
>Facult=E9 M=E9decine V=E9t=E9rinaire
>University of Montreal
>3200 rue Sicotte
>Saint-Hyacinthe (Qu=E9bec) J2S 7C6
>T=E9l: 450-773-8521; ext: 8317
>Fax: 450-778-8116
>Carl.F.Uhland 'at' umontreal.ca
F. Carl Uhland, DVM
Facult=E9 M=E9decine V=E9t=E9rinaire
University of Montreal
3200 rue Sicotte
Saint-Hyacinthe (Qu=E9bec) J2S 7C6
T=E9l: 450-773-8521; ext: 8317
Fax: 450-778-8116
Carl.F.Uhland 'at' umontreal.ca
| Message 14
Subject: Useful link
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 15:22:09 -0400
Folks,
I just stumbled upon this interesting site: http://thermastor.com/
they have a device that will recover heat from your refrigerator and heat
water with it. Also, they have a de-humidifying device that might be useful
for some greenhouses at certain times of the year.
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
| Message 15
Subject: Re: Useful link
From: "Arlos"
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 16:15:45 -0700
Andrei,
Heat pumps have been modified to include a heat exchanger. Pretty
inventive I might add.
Its amazing how much warm air comes off the back of a refrigerator when
its running.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrei Calciu
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 12:31 PM
Subject: Useful link
>
>Folks,
>
>I just stumbled upon this interesting site: http://thermastor.com/
>
>they have a device that will recover heat from your refrigerator and heat
>water with it. Also, they have a de-humidifying device that might be useful
>for some greenhouses at certain times of the year.
>
>-_______________
>Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
>NEC America, Inc.
>14040 Park Center Dr.
>Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>
>Voice: 703-834-4273
>Fax: 703-787-6613
>
>This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
>intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
>message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
>recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
>contents to any other person.
>
>
>
| Message 16
Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
From: "Thomas Short"
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 16:36:20 -0700
=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1355F.BA0157E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
So use a plastic drum! =20
=20
----- Original Message -----
From: F.Carl Uhland
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 11:11 AM
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
=20
Sorry about that, sometimes I miss a thread or two.
Carl
At 10:49 04-09-01 -0700, you wrote:
>Carl,
>
> I had mentioned this in the first response and to add another note in
>regard to placing copper coils in a steel 55 gallon drum, it will to cre=
ate
>electrolysis. This will begin the destruction of any steel and the coppe=
r.
>This is the same thing that happens in a house when steel and copper are
>combined on the potable water system.
>
>Arlos
>-----Original Message-----
>From: F.Carl Uhland
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Date: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 9:47 AM
>Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
>
>
>I would be hesitant about using copper plumbing in a recirculation syste=
m.
>
>Carl
>
>At 05:44 04-09-01 -1000, you wrote:
>
> >run copper coils on your roof, install a couple of backflow peventers,=
use
> >a grundfos pump, have the water pipes of copper coils submerged in a 5=
5
> >gallon drum to heat water to be put into the fish tanks
.forget your
> >radiators, not even good for making shine.>
>F. Carl Uhland, DVM
>Facult=E9 M=E9decine V=E9t=E9rinaire
>University of Montreal
>3200 rue Sicotte
>Saint-Hyacinthe (Qu=E9bec) J2S 7C6
>T=E9l: 450-773-8521; ext: 8317
>Fax: 450-778-8116
>Carl.F.Uhland 'at' umontreal.ca
F. Carl Uhland, DVM
Facult=E9 M=E9decine V=E9t=E9rinaire
University of Montreal
3200 rue Sicotte
Saint-Hyacinthe (Qu=E9bec) J2S 7C6
T=E9l: 450-773-8521; ext: 8317
Fax: 450-778-8116
Carl.F.Uhland 'at' umontreal.caGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer downl=
oad :
=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1355F.BA0157E0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
So use a plast=
ic drum! ----- Original Mes=
sage ----- From: F.Carl Uhland Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 11:11 AM To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors =
Sorry about that, sometimes I miss a thread or two.
=
Carl
At 10:49 04-09-01 -0700, you wrote:
>Carl,
><=
BR>> I had mentioned this in the first response and to add=
another note in
>regard to placing copper coils in a steel 55 gall=
on drum, it will to create
>electrolysis. This will begin the destr=
uction of any steel and the copper.
>This is the same thing that ha=
ppens in a house when steel and copper are
>combined on the potable=
water system.
>
>Arlos
>-----Original Message-----
=
>From: F.Carl Uhland <uhlandf 'at' MEDVET.UMontreal.CA>
>To: aq=
uaponics 'at' townsqr.com <aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com>
>Date: Tuesday,=
September 04, 2001 9:47 AM
>Subject: Re: heat exchangers and colle=
ctors
>
>
>I would be hesitant about using copper plumb=
ing in a recirculation system.
>
>Carl
>
>At 05:4=
4 04-09-01 -1000, you wrote:
>
> >run copper coils on your=
roof, install a couple of backflow peventers, use
> >a grundfos=
pump, have the water pipes of copper coils submerged in a 55
> >=
;gallon drum to heat water to be put into the fish tanks
.forget your> >radiators, not even good for making shine
.
>
>F. =
Carl Uhland, DVM
>Facult=E9 M=E9decine V=E9t=E9rinaire
>Unive=
rsity of Montreal
>3200 rue Sicotte
>Saint-Hyacinthe (Qu=E9be=
c) J2S 7C6
>T=E9l: 450-773-8521; ext: 8317
>Fax: 450-778-8116=
>Carl.F.Uhland 'at' umontreal.ca
F. Carl Uhland, DVM
Facult=E9=
M=E9decine V=E9t=E9rinaire
University of Montreal
3200 rue Sicotte=
Saint-Hyacinthe (Qu=E9bec) J2S 7C6
T=E9l: 450-773-8521; ext: 8317<=
BR>Fax: 450-778-8116
Carl.F.Uhland 'at' umontreal.ca
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer=
download :
=_NextPart_001_0001_01C1355F.BA0157E0--
| Message 17
Subject: boiler
From: "Steven Medlock"
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 18:50:10 -0500
well I got some good info, I will fill you in on the detailes of the
boiler. I want to heat a 1000 gallon tank 800 gallons of water. I was not
aware of copper hurting the fish. It seemed like a good idea. So can I
use the plastic or not? It sounds like an argument. As for the heat
exchanger to they have a web site? and what kind of money are we talking
about. There has got to be a way I can use this to heat the tank. Thanks,
Steve (Red)
| Message 18
Subject: Re: boiler
From: "Arlos"
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 17:54:01 -0700
Steven,
What species of fish (temp range for grow out minimum and Max), what
climate are you in (winter/ summer temp)? diameter and depth of tank,
composition of tank, inground/ above ground, indoor/ outdoor?
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Medlock
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 4:44 PM
Subject: boiler
>well I got some good info, I will fill you in on the detailes of the
>boiler. I want to heat a 1000 gallon tank 800 gallons of water. I was
not
>aware of copper hurting the fish. It seemed like a good idea. So can I
>use the plastic or not? It sounds like an argument. As for the heat
>exchanger to they have a web site? and what kind of money are we talking
>about. There has got to be a way I can use this to heat the tank. Thanks,
>Steve (Red)
>
>
| Message 19
Subject: Re: Useful link
From: "Frank Stancato"
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 21:05:08 -0400
If you like the thermaster site try out Heatpipe technology. I think that
this technology has a lot of potential.
http://www.heatpipe.com/
Frank
> >I just stumbled upon this interesting site: http://thermastor.com/
| Message 20
Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
From: "gerry magnuson"
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 15:12:03 -1000
howdy, gee guys, I thought you would all be using plastic, not steel drums,
and there are ways to beat ruining the copper
.look at the connections in
plumbing
.and there are other ways as well
.don't try to overload, or I
will show my credentials
.don't need an ego trip as some, just trying to
help people, prefer the farmer types, they use common sense.
>From: "Arlos"
>Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>
>Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
>Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 10:49:58 -0700
>
>Carl,
>
> I had mentioned this in the first response and to add another note in
>regard to placing copper coils in a steel 55 gallon drum, it will to create
>electrolysis. This will begin the destruction of any steel and the copper.
>This is the same thing that happens in a house when steel and copper are
>combined on the potable water system.
>
>Arlos
>-----Original Message-----
>From: F.Carl Uhland
>To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
>Date: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 9:47 AM
>Subject: Re: heat exchangers and collectors
>
>
>I would be hesitant about using copper plumbing in a recirculation system.
>
>Carl
>
>At 05:44 04-09-01 -1000, you wrote:
>
> >run copper coils on your roof, install a couple of backflow peventers,
>use
> >a grundfos pump, have the water pipes of copper coils submerged in a 55
> >gallon drum to heat water to be put into the fish tanks
.forget your
> >radiators, not even good for making shine.>
>F. Carl Uhland, DVM
>Faculté Médecine Vétérinaire
>University of Montreal
>3200 rue Sicotte
>Saint-Hyacinthe (Québec) J2S 7C6
>Tél: 450-773-8521; ext: 8317
>Fax: 450-778-8116
>Carl.F.Uhland 'at' umontreal.ca
>
>
>
| Message 21
Subject: Re: boiler
From: "Arlos"
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 19:34:37 -0700
Steve,
Just a quick note, your 130K BTU heater is more than ample to heat your
tank. I sat down to send off a post on heater calcs and I have to get a
proposal ready for tomorrow and don't have the time to respond in a way to
help you. Most posts are good common sense suggestions, as Gerry puts it,
kind of Farmers good sense. I spend way to much time reading these. Good
luck with your system.
Arlos
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Medlock
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Date: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 4:44 PM
Subject: boiler
>well I got some good info, I will fill you in on the detailes of the
>boiler. I want to heat a 1000 gallon tank 800 gallons of water. I was
not
>aware of copper hurting the fish. It seemed like a good idea. So can I
>use the plastic or not? It sounds like an argument. As for the heat
>exchanger to they have a web site? and what kind of money are we talking
>about. There has got to be a way I can use this to heat the tank. Thanks,
>Steve (Red)
>
>
| Message 22
Subject: unsubscribe
From: "Arlos"
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 19:41:33 -0700
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_0031_01C13579.9A4654E0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Paula,
I'm finding myself spending to much time sorting through aquaponics =
posts and need to take a break from it for a while. Most of my aquatic =
work is with marine and really doesn't have anything to do with this =
group. Good system you've developed though Good luck with it. Please =
unsubscribe me for now.=20
Arlos
=_NextPart_000_0031_01C13579.9A4654E0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Paula,
I'm finding myself spending to much time =
sorting=20
through aquaponics posts and need to take a break from it for a while. =
Most of=20
my aquatic work is with marine and really doesn't have anything to do =
with this=20
group. Good system you've developed though Good luck with it. Please =
unsubscribe=20
me for now.
Arlos
=_NextPart_000_0031_01C13579.9A4654E0--
| Message 23
Subject: Re: pacu] long
From: dreadlox
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 23:24:26 -0700
Chris Jeppesen wrote:
>
> >Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 22:39:12 +0200
> > Magnus van der Meer Chris Jeppesen Re: pacu
> >Hi Chris,
> >Concerning macropomum: fish are reproduced by hormone induction when in captivity.
Who needs PACU from source? Write me offlist if you need to buy PACU in
bulk. I can hook you up to some friends in Colombia willing to supply.
Lemme know.
--
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
|
