Aquaponics Digest - Fri 09/14/01
Message 1: Re: water, water, everywhere.
from dreadlox
Message 2: Re: plant beds and fish
from "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Message 3: Fw: Candle Lighting this Friday at 7:00pm
from "Gene Batten"
Message 4: Terrorism and Tilapia for school
from "Devon Williams"
Message 5: Re: Terrorism
from Jim Joyner
Message 6: Re: Terrorism
from fred kious
Message 7:
from kris book
Message 8: Re:
from "Gene Batten"
Message 9: Re: Terrorism
from Andrei Calciu
Message 10: Re: Terrorism AN ANSWER TO JIM FROM BRENT
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 11: Re: Terrorism FRED YOU ARE ON 100%
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 12: Candle light Vigil time CORRECTION 7:00 PM Pacific Time
from "Gene Batten"
Message 13: Re: Terrorism, my last word
from kris book
Message 14: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01
from Arlus Farnsworth
Message 15: Re: water, water, everywhere.
from Arlus Farnsworth
Message 16: Re: water, water, everywhere.
from Andrei Calciu
Message 17: Re: Terrorism, my last word
from Elisheva Ruth
Message 18: Re: water, water, everywhere.
from Arlus Farnsworth
Message 19: fish disease link diagnosis identification
from Arlus Farnsworth
Message 20: Re: water, water, everywhere.
from Andrei Calciu
Message 21: Re: water, water, everywhere.
from Arlus Farnsworth
Message 22: Re: Terrorism AN ANSWER TO JIM FROM BRENT (the last)
from Jim Joyner
Message 23: Re: Terrorism AN ANSWER TO JIM FROM BRENT thank you
from "Brent Bingham"
Message 24: Re: Terrorism AN ANSWER TO JIM FROM BRENT (the last)
from "Lloyd R. Prentice"
| Message 1
Subject: Re: water, water, everywhere.
From: dreadlox
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 02:05:28 -0700
Andrei Calciu wrote:
>
> I was reading some weird stuff about usage of sewage water on crops and I
> had a thought. Is there a way to privately treat/process household "grey
> water" (water from dishwashers, clothes washers, sinks and tubs, but no
> toilets) and use it for irrigating the crop or vegetable garden?
--
Yes there is Andrei. There are MANY great sites on the web that will
give you all the info you need on this topic. Search under
gray/greywater. I have built a "hydroponic" system using real sewage
water, to clean clear water. The client was so impressed they asked if
this could be reused to flush toilets to come full circle.
Investigate it! You will be SURPRISED just how much greywater you make.
Issues with greywater resuse involve smell, taste, and possibilities of
contamination and infection if used incorrectly. There are many systems
of reuse built, that are up and running which are thoroughly documented
on the web.
In fact we recently have been connected to the "grid" and we are now
being charged on every dollar potable water bought/ dollar for sewage
disharged.
I am thinking seriously about setting up a recycle system for my house
over time, as I dont see why I should pay for folks to just settle my
water for me. In all fairness, Jamaica has one of the best integrated
water commisions in the new world, sadly politics is the reason for the
last frontiers not being covered.
><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
JAMAICA, West Indies
| Message 2
Subject: Re: plant beds and fish
From: "Leslie Ter Morshuizen"
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:43:22 +0200
Hi Bob
The rule of thumb is that the surface area of the bog garden should equal
that surface area of the pond being filtered. Flow rate should be about 2
hours per cycle. Gravel bed depth should be 30-40cm and gravel size roughly
10mm.
Have fun,
Leslie
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Rogers
To: aquaponics mail group
Sent: Thursday, 13 September, 2001 8:54 PM
Subject: plant beds and fish
> I have been ask by a friend to design and install a plant bed to
> filter the water in a goldfish pond. The plants will be ornamental
marginal
> plants, any ideas on what the square/cubic footage should be. The pond is
> about 1000 gal.
> I hope my comments and comments of others in the last few days have
not
> offended anyone too much, it is an emotional time. We as a nation and
> nations must stand together and strong.
> Bob
>
>
| Message 3
Subject: Fw: Candle Lighting this Friday at 7:00pm
From: "Gene Batten"
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:58:25 -0400
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_000A_01C13CF3.086F0EA0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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FW: Candle Lighting this Friday at 7:00pmFYI=20
Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop your car,=20
or step out of your establishment and light a candle.=20
We will show the world that Americans are strong and=20
united together against terrorism.=20
=20
Please pass this to everyone on your e-mail list.=20
We need to reach everyone across the United States quickly.=20
The message:=20
WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE TERRORISM.=20
We need press to cover this-- we need the world to see.=20
=_NextPart_000_000A_01C13CF3.086F0EA0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FW: Candle Lighting this Friday at 7:00pm
FYI
Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop =
your=20
car,
or step out of your establishment and =
light a=20
candle.
We will show the world that Americans are strong =
and=20
united together against terrorism. =
=
Please pass this to everyone on your e-mail=20
list.
We need to reach =
everyone across=20
the United States quickly.
The message:
WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE =
TERRORISM.=20
We need press to cover this-- we need the world to =
see.
=_NextPart_000_000A_01C13CF3.086F0EA0--
| Message 4
Subject: Terrorism and Tilapia for school
From: "Devon Williams"
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:05:23 -0400
To the individual who needs Tilapia for the school setup
.Some information
below might help. John's email is different now
.(hang on, I'm looking for
it)
ah, here it is
.jharbuck 'at' fhs.cov.k12.al.us
I hope it helps.
To Paula, I'm so sorry to hear of your loss
.I'm sure this week's tragedy
only adds insult to injury, however I hope you realize the vast family that
you have here on this list, and anything we can do, please let us
know
.Leonard Pitts described the family connection best IMHO
.
http://www.miami.com/herald/content/features/columnists/pitts/digdocs/000565.htm
I believe part of our grieving must include discussion of this horrific
moment in our country's timeline
.it is healthy. As long as this
discussion does not eat away at the ties that bind us as humans, sharing
this chunck of rock we so dearly love.
Sincerely,
Devon Williams
Beer Belly Brothers Brewing
Watkinsville, GA
ooooo
|
oo=|
|
.o |
|
.| |
|
.|=|
|___|
>From: "Adriana Gutierrez"
>Reply-To: "Adriana Gutierrez"
>To:
>Subject: Fw: Tilapia needed for school system
>Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:36:00 -0600
>
>Devon,
>
>I just sent this to the aquaponics list but in case you get it in
>digest form on a delayed basis I'll send you a copy directly. If that
>doesn't pan out I can pull my list of other workshop participants for
>you. However this guy was the only southerner there.
>
>Adriana
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Adriana Gutierrez"
>
>Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 9:33 AM
>Subject: Re: Tilapia needed for school system
>
>
> > Paula,
> >
> > I attended the Freshwater Institute Workshop for Educators in West
> > Virginia a couple of years ago and there was a teacher from Florala
> > High School in Alabama who offered to send fingerlings to other
> > educators for the cost of shipping. For those of ya'll who aren't
> > from these parts, Florala straddles the border between Florida and
> > Alabama over in the panhandle. Florala is within driving distance of
> > Atlanta or else I'm sure FedEx or FedEx Ground would be happy to
> > oblige.
> >
> > (By the way have any of you checked the rates for FedEx Ground? If
> > you're shipping within a couple of hundered miles the rates and
> > schedules are quite reasonable. I believe they bought Roadway
>Package
> > Service and converted it over to a FedEx operation.)
> >
> > The teacher's name is John Harbuck (334) 858-3765, e-mail:
> > harbuckfhs 'at' cyou.com. The e-mail address is a couple of years old so
>I
> > don't know if it's still current. He was an instructor at the
>course
> > and have incredible knwoledge in all aspects of tilapia growing
> > ranging from high school ag-tech programs to several acres of ponds
>on
> > his farm. He would be a great resource for the teacher in Georgia
>to
> > contact.
> >
> > Adriana Gutierrez
> >
> > > Need some assistance to supply (at a reasonable cost) 100-200
> > fingerlings
> > > for a school system in Georgia. So far quotes from suppliers have
> > ranged in
> > > the $300-500 range -- a bit too expensive, I'd think, even if it
> > weren't a
> > > school system trying to operate on a limited grant.
> >
>
| Message 5
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: Jim Joyner
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:25:20 -0500
At 07:49 AM 9/13/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>No policy "made" them hate us; they CHOSE to hate. Many of then want to go
>on hating- they don't want "solutions"- they just want to go on hating- it
>energizes them, or something. We cannot change them; we can only defend
>ourselves against them.
> The individuals who did and abetted these things are responsible for
>their own actions. "Policies" are not responsible.
Ryon,
I agree that policies cannot be responsible; only people can be responsible
for their actions. And the people responsible for the terrorist acts
Tuesday, should be held accountable.
You make some good points about the nature of hate -- which apply as well
to many Americans. Like the ones who now attack American Muslims, or Jerry
Farwell who now blames the Tuesday's Catastrophe on lesbians and gays. It
seems that hate and bigotry doesn't stop at the Middle East's borders.
But consider some things that come from policies the people in our gov't
are responsible for. Consider the hypocrisy of a gov't that espouses
democracy and creates and/or backs dictators at the same time (Saddam
Hussein, The Shah of Iran, "Papa and Baby Doc" Duvalier, Marcos, Pinochet,
Somoza, Batista, Trujillo, Suharto, Pol Pot, Noriega, Mobutu, Abacha, Idi
Amin, Charles Doe to mention some of the most infamous).
Our gov't nor the American people are responsible for the actions of these
people. But do you honestly think none of these people or acts, aided and
abetted in one way or the other by US Gov't policy, contributed to folks
around the world hating us so? Do you think hate comes out of a vacuum, out
of some particular religion or culture?
Bigotry and hate will not be rooted out with the guns of retribution --
only understanding can do it. Guns will only make martyrs of terrorists,
which will create more terrorists, more hatred. Guns will only kill more
innocence people, which in turn will fan the flames of hatred -- the kind
you may be legitimately feeling right now, the kind, I suspect, you are
choosing. True, we cannot change anyone . . . well, except maybe ourselves.
Blaming ourselves, which I am not doing, is not the same as taking
responsibility for what happens to us. If we want the world to change, we
must take the responsibility for changing our view of it and the way we
treat it. Terrorism is not new, it's just getting bigger -- right along
with our national policy.
The point I would make is if our gov't continues with the same old policy
lines -- basically, attempting to manipulate the world's economy and
politics, mostly, for the benefit of "special Interests" -- we will
continue to bring bigger and bigger problems to our shores, war or no war.
It's kinda like one of the definitions of insanity: . . . continuing to do
the same things with the expectation of change . . .
Jim
| Message 6
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: fred kious
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 03:09:36 -0700
their is still boats leaving everyday if you do not like the usa
fred
Jim Joyner wrote:
> At 07:49 AM 9/13/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >No policy "made" them hate us; they CHOSE to hate. Many of then want to go
> >on hating- they don't want "solutions"- they just want to go on hating- it
> >energizes them, or something. We cannot change them; we can only defend
> >ourselves against them.
> > The individuals who did and abetted these things are responsible for
> >their own actions. "Policies" are not responsible.
>
> Ryon,
>
> I agree that policies cannot be responsible; only people can be responsible
> for their actions. And the people responsible for the terrorist acts
> Tuesday, should be held accountable.
>
> You make some good points about the nature of hate -- which apply as well
> to many Americans. Like the ones who now attack American Muslims, or Jerry
> Farwell who now blames the Tuesday's Catastrophe on lesbians and gays. It
> seems that hate and bigotry doesn't stop at the Middle East's borders.
>
> But consider some things that come from policies the people in our gov't
> are responsible for. Consider the hypocrisy of a gov't that espouses
> democracy and creates and/or backs dictators at the same time (Saddam
> Hussein, The Shah of Iran, "Papa and Baby Doc" Duvalier, Marcos, Pinochet,
> Somoza, Batista, Trujillo, Suharto, Pol Pot, Noriega, Mobutu, Abacha, Idi
> Amin, Charles Doe to mention some of the most infamous).
>
> Our gov't nor the American people are responsible for the actions of these
> people. But do you honestly think none of these people or acts, aided and
> abetted in one way or the other by US Gov't policy, contributed to folks
> around the world hating us so? Do you think hate comes out of a vacuum, out
> of some particular religion or culture?
>
> Bigotry and hate will not be rooted out with the guns of retribution --
> only understanding can do it. Guns will only make martyrs of terrorists,
> which will create more terrorists, more hatred. Guns will only kill more
> innocence people, which in turn will fan the flames of hatred -- the kind
> you may be legitimately feeling right now, the kind, I suspect, you are
> choosing. True, we cannot change anyone . . . well, except maybe ourselves.
>
> Blaming ourselves, which I am not doing, is not the same as taking
> responsibility for what happens to us. If we want the world to change, we
> must take the responsibility for changing our view of it and the way we
> treat it. Terrorism is not new, it's just getting bigger -- right along
> with our national policy.
>
> The point I would make is if our gov't continues with the same old policy
> lines -- basically, attempting to manipulate the world's economy and
> politics, mostly, for the benefit of "special Interests" -- we will
> continue to bring bigger and bigger problems to our shores, war or no war.
> It's kinda like one of the definitions of insanity: . . . continuing to do
> the same things with the expectation of change . . .
>
> Jim
| Message 7
From: kris book
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:54:09 -0600
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
----__JNP_000_2024.20f6.7db1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gene,
Is that 7:00 PM eastern time?
On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:58:25 -0400 "Gene Batten"
writes:
FYI
Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop your car,
or step out of your establishment and light a candle.
We will show the world that Americans are strong and
united together against terrorism.
Please pass this to everyone on your e-mail list.
We need to reach everyone across the United States quickly.
The message:
WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE TERRORISM.
We need press to cover this-- we need the world to see.
----__JNP_000_2024.20f6.7db1
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gene,
Is that 7:00 PM eastern time?
On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:58:25 -0400 "Gene Batten" < gbatten 'at' charter.net> writes:
FYI
Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop =
your=20
car,
or step out of your establishment and =
light a=20
candle.
We will show the world that Americans are strong=20
and
united together against terrorism.=20
=20
Please pass this to everyone on your e-mail=
=20
list.
We need to reach =
everyone=20
across the United States quickly.
The message:
WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE TERRORISM.=20
We need press to cover this-- we need the world to=
=20
see.
----__JNP_000_2024.20f6.7db1--
| Message 8
Subject: Re:
From: "Gene Batten"
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:08:36 -0400
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C13D0D.99747560
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes
Thanks,
Gene
----- Original Message -----=20
From: kris book=20
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com=20
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:54 AM
Gene,=20
Is that 7:00 PM eastern time?
On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:58:25 -0400 "Gene Batten" =
writes:
FYI=20
Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop your car,=20
or step out of your establishment and light a candle.=20
We will show the world that Americans are strong and=20
united together against terrorism.=20
=20
Please pass this to everyone on your e-mail list.=20
We need to reach everyone across the United States quickly.=20
The message:=20
WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE TERRORISM.=20
We need press to cover this-- we need the world to see.=20
=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C13D0D.99747560
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes
Thanks,
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From:=20
kris =
book=20
Sent: Friday, September 14, =
2001 10:54=20
AM
Gene,
Is that 7:00 PM eastern time?
On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:58:25 -0400 "Gene Batten" < gbatten 'at' charter.net> =
writes:FYI
Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, =
stop your=20
car,
or step out of your establishment =
and light=20
a candle.
We will show the world that Americans are =
strong=20
and
united together against =
terrorism.=20
=20
Please pass this to everyone on your =
e-mail=20
list.
We need to reach =
everyone=20
across the United States quickly.
The message:
WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE =
TERRORISM.=20
We need press to cover this-- we need the =
world to=20
see.
=_NextPart_000_00C2_01C13D0D.99747560--
| Message 9
Subject: Re: Terrorism
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:06:19 -0400
Jim wrote:
The point I would make is if our gov't continues with the same old policy
lines -- basically, attempting to manipulate the world's economy and
politics, mostly, for the benefit of "special Interests" -- we will
continue to bring bigger and bigger problems to our shores, war or no war.
It's kinda like one of the definitions of insanity: . . . continuing to do
the same things with the expectation of change . . .
Jim,
What great insight! The more the US rises in prominence in the world, and
the more the US behaves like the planetary cop, the more it will rub groups
and nations the wrong way. We think that we can turn the entire planet into
a giant melting pot and create a homogenous Earth that functions like the
US does, but that is a pipe dream, promoted by a handful of special
interests in order to secure governmental assistance in furthering their
goals.
The US has backed (and is still backing) directly or indirectly, terrorists
and oppressive regimes the world over (in recent memory are Chile's
Pinochet, the IRA, many African dictators like the late Mobutu, some
communist leaders like the late Cauchescu, local dictators like Duvalier,
warmongers like the Nicaraguan Contras, oppressive regimes like Israel,
Iran under the Shah, or South Vietnam before the Vietnam war, and the list
could go on forever).
This is not new and it will not end because one's tyrant is another one's
liberator, one's terrorist is another one's freedom fighter. Whenever you
take a side, you automatically make enemies. One can only hope that we back
the right party more often than not. We are human, not perfect and hope for
the best when make our moves.
The bigger question is: are we going to look at, and change our way of
doing things because of the events? Will such a review/change amount to
giving in to terror? Will we benefit in any way from changing? These are
all tough questions, and it is doubtful we will solve any of them on this
or any other forum that is not specifically dedicated to this purpose.
In the mean time we have to remain strong and compassionate, be resolute,
and support whatever actions the government takes in retribution.
Furthermore, remember that we are Americans, we live in the best country
and society our imperfect humanity can create. Last, but not least, we need
to remember that this atrocity is an attack on the entire world. Many of
the victims on the planes and on the ground were of foreign nationality.
Remember all to be out at 7 PM Eastern Time to light a candle.
| Message 10
Subject: Re: Terrorism AN ANSWER TO JIM FROM BRENT
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:47:04 -0700
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Joyner"
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: Terrorism
> At 07:49 AM 9/13/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >No policy "made" them hate us; they CHOSE to hate. Many of then want to
go
> >on hating- they don't want "solutions"- they just want to go on hating-
it
> >energizes them, or something. We cannot change them; we can only defend
> >ourselves against them.
> > The individuals who did and abetted these things are responsible
for
> >their own actions. "Policies" are not responsible.
>
> Ryon,
>
snip
> And the people responsible for the terrorist acts
> Tuesday, should be held accountable.
JIM, HELD ACCOUNTABLE IN WHAT WAY? HOW FAR WOULD YOU
GO? WHAT ABOUT THE ONES THAT HELPED BUT DID NOT FLY THE
PLANES? HOW BLODDY RED HANDED MUST THEY BE IN YOUR MIND?
>
> You make some good points about the nature of hate -- which apply as well
> to many Americans.
A SMALL PERCENT LESS THAN 2% IS NOT MANY!
SNIP
> seems that hate and bigotry doesn't stop at the Middle East's borders
YOU USE TOO "BROUD OF STROCKS" CASTING DISPERSIONS ON
"MANY" OF US.
SNIP
>
> But consider some things that come from policies the people in our gov't
> are responsible for. Consider the hypocrisy of a gov't that espouses
> democracy and creates and/or backs dictators at the same time (Saddam
> Hussein, The Shah of Iran, "Papa and Baby Doc" Duvalier, Marcos, Pinochet,
> Somoza, Batista, Trujillo, Suharto, Pol Pot, Noriega, Mobutu, Abacha, Idi
> Amin, Charles Doe to mention some of the most infamous).
YOU POINT OUT WHAT YOU SUPPOSE WERE POLICY FAILURS!
WHAT REPLACED THEM IN ALMOST EVERY CASE.
SNIP
> Do you think hate comes out of a vacuum, out
> of some particular religion or culture?
YES HATE IS SPUED OUT OF THE MOUTHES OF THERE RELIGOIOUS
LEADERS!
>
> Bigotry and hate will not be rooted out with the guns of retribution --
> only understanding can do it.
SNIP
YES YOU CAN, GUNS WERE USED ON THE LESS THAT 2% OF OUR
OWN CITIZENS WHO WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR ACTS ON BLACKS
IN THE 60'S, ARE THEY MARTERS?
Guns will only make martyrs of terrorists,
SNIP
>
> we cannot change anyone . . . well, except maybe ourselves.
SNIP
WHY DO WE PUT PEOPLE IN JAIL OR KILL THEM IF THEY WILL
NOT CHANGE?
>
> Blaming ourselves, which I am not doing, is not the same as taking
> responsibility for what happens to us.
JIM, YES YOU ARE. THIS IS CLINTON EEE'S AT IT'S WORST.
If we want the world to change, we
> must take the responsibility for changing our view of it and the way we
> treat it. Terrorism is not new, it's just getting bigger -- right along
> with our national policy.
A POLICY OF DOING NOTHENG HAS NOT WORKED ON THESE
PEOPLE
SNIP
>
> The point I would make is if our gov't continues with the same old policy
> lines -- basically, attempting to manipulate the world's economy and
> politics, mostly, for the benefit of "special Interests" --
WOULD TOTAL WORLD RESESSION AND ANARCY SOLVE ANYTHING?
WHO FEEDS THE WORLD BUT SPECIAL INTERESTS OF SOME SORT
SNIP
> continue to bring bigger and bigger problems to our shores, war or no war.
> It's kinda like one of the definitions of insanity: . . . continuing to do
> the same things with the expectation of change . . .
YES IT IS TIME TO ACTUALY DO WHAT WE SHOULD HAVE DONE IN; NAM,
IRAN, IRAQ ETC. ETC. WE NEVER FINISH WHAT THEY START
>
> Jim
>
>
| Message 11
Subject: Re: Terrorism FRED YOU ARE ON 100%
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:48:57 -0700
----- Original Message -----
From: "fred kious"
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 3:09 AM
Subject: Re: Terrorism
> their is still boats leaving everyday if you do not like the usa
> fred
>
> Jim Joyner wrote:
>
> > At 07:49 AM 9/13/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> > >No policy "made" them hate us; they CHOSE to hate. Many of then want to
go
> > >on hating- they don't want "solutions"- they just want to go on hating-
it
> > >energizes them, or something. We cannot change them; we can only defend
> > >ourselves against them.
> > > The individuals who did and abetted these things are responsible
for
> > >their own actions. "Policies" are not responsible.
> >
> > Ryon,
> >
> > I agree that policies cannot be responsible; only people can be
responsible
> > for their actions. And the people responsible for the terrorist acts
> > Tuesday, should be held accountable.
> >
> > You make some good points about the nature of hate -- which apply as
well
> > to many Americans. Like the ones who now attack American Muslims, or
Jerry
> > Farwell who now blames the Tuesday's Catastrophe on lesbians and gays.
It
> > seems that hate and bigotry doesn't stop at the Middle East's borders.
> >
> > But consider some things that come from policies the people in our gov't
> > are responsible for. Consider the hypocrisy of a gov't that espouses
> > democracy and creates and/or backs dictators at the same time (Saddam
> > Hussein, The Shah of Iran, "Papa and Baby Doc" Duvalier, Marcos,
Pinochet,
> > Somoza, Batista, Trujillo, Suharto, Pol Pot, Noriega, Mobutu, Abacha,
Idi
> > Amin, Charles Doe to mention some of the most infamous).
> >
> > Our gov't nor the American people are responsible for the actions of
these
> > people. But do you honestly think none of these people or acts, aided
and
> > abetted in one way or the other by US Gov't policy, contributed to folks
> > around the world hating us so? Do you think hate comes out of a vacuum,
out
> > of some particular religion or culture?
> >
> > Bigotry and hate will not be rooted out with the guns of retribution --
> > only understanding can do it. Guns will only make martyrs of terrorists,
> > which will create more terrorists, more hatred. Guns will only kill more
> > innocence people, which in turn will fan the flames of hatred -- the
kind
> > you may be legitimately feeling right now, the kind, I suspect, you are
> > choosing. True, we cannot change anyone . . . well, except maybe
ourselves.
> >
> > Blaming ourselves, which I am not doing, is not the same as taking
> > responsibility for what happens to us. If we want the world to change,
we
> > must take the responsibility for changing our view of it and the way we
> > treat it. Terrorism is not new, it's just getting bigger -- right along
> > with our national policy.
> >
> > The point I would make is if our gov't continues with the same old
policy
> > lines -- basically, attempting to manipulate the world's economy and
> > politics, mostly, for the benefit of "special Interests" -- we will
> > continue to bring bigger and bigger problems to our shores, war or no
war.
> > It's kinda like one of the definitions of insanity: . . . continuing to
do
> > the same things with the expectation of change . . .
> >
> > Jim
>
>
| Message 12
Subject: Candle light Vigil time CORRECTION 7:00 PM Pacific Time
From: "Gene Batten"
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:49:08 -0400
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=_NextPart_000_0100_01C13D24.0683C320
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The Candle Light Vigil is suggested for 7:00 PM Pacific Time, which is =
10:00 PM Eastern Time. Sorry for the confusion.=20
.Gene
----- Original Message -----=20
From: kris book=20
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com=20
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:54 AM
Gene,=20
Is that 7:00 PM eastern time?
On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:58:25 -0400 "Gene Batten" =
writes:
FYI=20
Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop your car,=20
or step out of your establishment and light a candle.=20
We will show the world that Americans are strong and=20
united together against terrorism.=20
=20
Please pass this to everyone on your e-mail list.=20
We need to reach everyone across the United States quickly.=20
The message:=20
WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE TERRORISM.=20
We need press to cover this-- we need the world to see.=20
=_NextPart_000_0100_01C13D24.0683C320
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The Candle Light Vigil is =
suggested for 7:00=20
PM Pacific Time, which is 10:00 PM Eastern Time. Sorry for the =
confusion.=20
.Gene
----- Original Message -----
From:=20
kris =
book=20
Sent: Friday, September 14, =
2001 10:54=20
AM
Gene,
Is that 7:00 PM eastern time?
On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:58:25 -0400 "Gene Batten" < gbatten 'at' charter.net> =
writes:FYI
Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, =
stop your=20
car,
or step out of your establishment =
and light=20
a candle.
We will show the world that Americans are =
strong=20
and
united together against =
terrorism.=20
=20
Please pass this to everyone on your =
e-mail=20
list.
We need to reach =
everyone=20
across the United States quickly.
The message:
WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE =
TERRORISM.=20
We need press to cover this-- we need the =
world to=20
see.
=_NextPart_000_0100_01C13D24.0683C320--
| Message 13
Subject: Re: Terrorism, my last word
From: kris book
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:06:09 -0600
A few weeks ago, someone made the observation that mailing lists are a
bad place to discuss politics or religion. After all the pro and con,
hawks and doves discussions of this tragedy, it is perfectly clear to me
that this thread can only destroy relations on the aquaponics list. I
want to make a plea to all, to please allow each other the right to
disagree. Our Constitution gives each of us the right to believe as we
wish. Personally, I will only kill again to protect my family, at or near
my home. The Bible does make mention of an eye for an eye but, this is
not an equal level with the Commandment, Thou shalt not kill. I pray that
the guilty parties receive the justice they deserve.
kris book
| Message 14
Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01
From: Arlus Farnsworth
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:24:59 -0700
> Why don't you loan me the several $K it would take to do this? (the net over
> the pond).
Gee I dunno. I had imagined something smaller.
> I don't go waving my gun around.
But it was funny to think about if you had done so.
> I sighted my scope in today.
> Just a matter of time. TOAST!!
I try not to get too happy about it, but that's just me.
> I also think that this is a fruitless conversation and will generate nothing
> but hard feelings by carrying it forward any more. I will make no more
> responses to it.
Yeah, that is cool. I was not intending any hard feelings.
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arlus Farnsworth"
>
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 1:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01
>
> Steve, since you wish for my opinion, I will give it.
> If a fish is too domesticated to avoid predators, obviously it should be
> located in a protected location or given more protection. If your idea
> of protection is waving a gun around and firing off rounds then you have
> way too much time on your hands, simply not an efficient method, hence
> the comparison to entertainment. While many people don't have a problem
> with this type of diversion, for me it is only a matter of utility.
> Killing stuff clouds my mind, I am one who appreciates thinking clearly.
> Having a way to think of what I am doing helps. Don't get me wrong, I am
> a farmer and a hunter by nature. I understand protecting yourself, it
> seems like there are easier ways than to get pissed off at a bird.
> Either do the deed or try something else. My buddy has goldfish in a
> small pond. When racoon attacks became relentless he tried various
> methods. One that worked was to lay down a stainless steel grate about
> six inches off the bottom, weighed down with large stones. This offers
> the additional benefit of some shade. For the bird, I should think some
> netting over the top would suffice.
> Quequeeg
>
> STEVE SPRING wrote:
> >
> > Hi Arlus,
> >
> > If you were raising sheep or cattle and the coyote, wolves and cougars
> were
> > killing and eating your livestock, wouldn't you do something about it?
> Sure
> > you would. But, that is o.k. Right??
> >
> > 'splain the difference to me.
> >
> > I'm just like that rancher/farmer. I operate on a very small profit/loss
> > scenario. I don't hunt, fish or any of these; but, if an animal/bird
> > threatens my business
.Oh Well! It is not that this SOB doesn't have
> > adequate feeding grounds available. He/she has just staked out my little
> > pond as his/her private property. As I said previously, the SOB is TOAST
> > eventually!
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Arlus Farnsworth"
> >
> > Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 2:57 PM
> > Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sun 09/09/01
> >
> > Someone from around here had to spend time in jail because he shot an
> > owl that was disturbing his football game on tv. Fines and lifetime care
> > for the disabled bird included. My brother killed the neighbors chickens
> > with a bb gun, just for fun.
| Message 15
Subject: Re: water, water, everywhere.
From: Arlus Farnsworth
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:39:12 -0700
It would be nice to be properly charged for zero discharge of personal
hydroponics/aquaponics/greywater systems in residential areas.
dreadlox wrote:
>
> Andrei Calciu wrote:
> >
> > I was reading some weird stuff about usage of sewage water on crops and I
> > had a thought. Is there a way to privately treat/process household "grey
> > water" (water from dishwashers, clothes washers, sinks and tubs, but no
> > toilets) and use it for irrigating the crop or vegetable garden?
>
> --
> Yes there is Andrei. There are MANY great sites on the web that will
> give you all the info you need on this topic. Search under
> gray/greywater. I have built a "hydroponic" system using real sewage
> water, to clean clear water. The client was so impressed they asked if
> this could be reused to flush toilets to come full circle.
>
> Investigate it! You will be SURPRISED just how much greywater you make.
> Issues with greywater resuse involve smell, taste, and possibilities of
> contamination and infection if used incorrectly. There are many systems
> of reuse built, that are up and running which are thoroughly documented
> on the web.
>
> In fact we recently have been connected to the "grid" and we are now
> being charged on every dollar potable water bought/ dollar for sewage
> disharged.
>
> I am thinking seriously about setting up a recycle system for my house
> over time, as I dont see why I should pay for folks to just settle my
> water for me. In all fairness, Jamaica has one of the best integrated
> water commisions in the new world, sadly politics is the reason for the
> last frontiers not being covered.
>
> ><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
> JAMAICA, West Indies
| Message 16
Subject: Re: water, water, everywhere.
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:54:18 -0400
Arlus and list,
There is a way to get proper charges from your water company. For the
household water that goes in the sewer, you would get charged regularly (in
most of USA the sewer charge is $3 for each $1 of water consumed).
To get separate bills, you need to get an irrigation hookup. Most areas of
the country will provide such a hookup which only meters the water use and
there is no sewage charge. The hook-up has its own water meter and it
represents a completely separate connection to the water main. It could
become expensive to get such a hook-up for an already existing home. Not to
forget the changes that need to be done to the home plumbing to divert
greywater from the city sewer system.
For a new home, it is fairly easy to design and implement separate outlets
for greywater and blackwater. The irrigation part would still be separate.
You might need to get a third meter for the greywater part of your
plumbing. This way your only charge would be for flushing, and you could
even eliminate that by getting a composting toilet :-)
Seriously, unless you are going to build a home from scratch, implementing
a separate system will probably be prohibitively expensive. The
agricultural hook-up on the other hand is easily available and not too
expensive and many of us would save big bucks in utility bills by not
paying a sewer charge for watering the plants, filling the pool or for
supplementing water in your fish tanks.
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
Arlus Farnsworth
To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
Sent by: cc:
aquaponics-request 'at' t Subject: Re: water, water, everywhere.
ownsqr.com
09/14/01 02:39 PM
Please respond to
aquaponics
It would be nice to be properly charged for zero discharge of personal
hydroponics/aquaponics/greywater systems in residential areas.
dreadlox wrote:
>
> Andrei Calciu wrote:
> >
> > I was reading some weird stuff about usage of sewage water on crops and
I
> > had a thought. Is there a way to privately treat/process household
"grey
> > water" (water from dishwashers, clothes washers, sinks and tubs, but no
> > toilets) and use it for irrigating the crop or vegetable garden?
>
> --
> Yes there is Andrei. There are MANY great sites on the web that will
> give you all the info you need on this topic. Search under
> gray/greywater. I have built a "hydroponic" system using real sewage
> water, to clean clear water. The client was so impressed they asked if
> this could be reused to flush toilets to come full circle.
>
> Investigate it! You will be SURPRISED just how much greywater you make.
> Issues with greywater resuse involve smell, taste, and possibilities of
> contamination and infection if used incorrectly. There are many systems
> of reuse built, that are up and running which are thoroughly documented
> on the web.
>
> In fact we recently have been connected to the "grid" and we are now
> being charged on every dollar potable water bought/ dollar for sewage
> disharged.
>
> I am thinking seriously about setting up a recycle system for my house
> over time, as I dont see why I should pay for folks to just settle my
> water for me. In all fairness, Jamaica has one of the best integrated
> water commisions in the new world, sadly politics is the reason for the
> last frontiers not being covered.
>
> ><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
> JAMAICA, West Indies
| Message 17
Subject: Re: Terrorism, my last word
From: Elisheva Ruth
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:07:19 +0000
The Bible only refers to eye for an eye in a discussion
about equal monetary compensation for an injured or lost limb.
Ask any Rabbi.
'An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.'
Gandhi
Blessings for transformative strength.
> From: kris book
> Reply-To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:06:09 -0600
> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Cc: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Subject: Re: Terrorism, my last word
>
> A few weeks ago, someone made the observation that mailing lists are a
> bad place to discuss politics or religion. After all the pro and con,
> hawks and doves discussions of this tragedy, it is perfectly clear to me
> that this thread can only destroy relations on the aquaponics list. I
> want to make a plea to all, to please allow each other the right to
> disagree. Our Constitution gives each of us the right to believe as we
> wish. Personally, I will only kill again to protect my family, at or near
> my home. The Bible does make mention of an eye for an eye but, this is
> not an equal level with the Commandment, Thou shalt not kill. I pray that
> the guilty parties receive the justice they deserve.
>
> kris book
>
| Message 18
Subject: Re: water, water, everywhere.
From: Arlus Farnsworth
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:50:48 -0700
.
"The agricultural hook-up
. is easily available and not too
expensive and many of us would save big bucks in utility bills by not
paying a sewer charge for watering the plants, filling the pool or for
supplementing water in your fish tanks."
Andrei Calciu wrote:
>
> Arlus and list,
>
> There is a way to get proper charges from your water company. For the
> household water that goes in the sewer, you would get charged regularly (in
> most of USA the sewer charge is $3 for each $1 of water consumed).
>
> To get separate bills, you need to get an irrigation hookup. Most areas of
> the country will provide such a hookup which only meters the water use and
> there is no sewage charge. The hook-up has its own water meter and it
> represents a completely separate connection to the water main. It could
> become expensive to get such a hook-up for an already existing home. Not to
> forget the changes that need to be done to the home plumbing to divert
> greywater from the city sewer system.
>
> For a new home, it is fairly easy to design and implement separate outlets
> for greywater and blackwater. The irrigation part would still be separate.
> You might need to get a third meter for the greywater part of your
> plumbing. This way your only charge would be for flushing, and you could
> even eliminate that by getting a composting toilet :-)
>
> Seriously, unless you are going to build a home from scratch, implementing
> a separate system will probably be prohibitively expensive. The
> agricultural hook-up on the other hand is easily available and not too
> expensive and many of us would save big bucks in utility bills by not
> paying a sewer charge for watering the plants, filling the pool or for
> supplementing water in your fish tanks.
>
> -_______________
> Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
> NEC America, Inc.
> 14040 Park Center Dr.
> Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>
> Voice: 703-834-4273
> Fax: 703-787-6613
>
> This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
> message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
> recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
> contents to any other person.
>
>
> Arlus Farnsworth
> To: aquaponics 'at' townsqr.com
> Sent by: cc:
> aquaponics-request 'at' t Subject: Re: water, water, everywhere.
> ownsqr.com
>
>
> 09/14/01 02:39 PM
> Please respond to
> aquaponics
>
>
>
> It would be nice to be properly charged for zero discharge of personal
> hydroponics/aquaponics/greywater systems in residential areas.
>
> dreadlox wrote:
> >
> > Andrei Calciu wrote:
> > >
> > > I was reading some weird stuff about usage of sewage water on crops and
> I
> > > had a thought. Is there a way to privately treat/process household
> "grey
> > > water" (water from dishwashers, clothes washers, sinks and tubs, but no
> > > toilets) and use it for irrigating the crop or vegetable garden?
> >
> > --
> > Yes there is Andrei. There are MANY great sites on the web that will
> > give you all the info you need on this topic. Search under
> > gray/greywater. I have built a "hydroponic" system using real sewage
> > water, to clean clear water. The client was so impressed they asked if
> > this could be reused to flush toilets to come full circle.
> >
> > Investigate it! You will be SURPRISED just how much greywater you make.
> > Issues with greywater resuse involve smell, taste, and possibilities of
> > contamination and infection if used incorrectly. There are many systems
> > of reuse built, that are up and running which are thoroughly documented
> > on the web.
> >
> > In fact we recently have been connected to the "grid" and we are now
> > being charged on every dollar potable water bought/ dollar for sewage
> > disharged.
> >
> > I am thinking seriously about setting up a recycle system for my house
> > over time, as I dont see why I should pay for folks to just settle my
> > water for me. In all fairness, Jamaica has one of the best integrated
> > water commisions in the new world, sadly politics is the reason for the
> > last frontiers not being covered.
> >
> > ><{{{*> Mike Barnett <*}}}><
> > JAMAICA, West Indies
| Message 19
Subject: fish disease link diagnosis identification
From: Arlus Farnsworth
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:09:14 -0700
This site appears to be quite good, and has movies.
www.fishdoc.co.uk
| Message 20
Subject: Re: water, water, everywhere.
From: Andrei Calciu
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:06:53 -0400
Arlus,
are you using an irrigation hookup?
-_______________
Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
NEC America, Inc.
14040 Park Center Dr.
Herndon, VA 20171-3227
Voice: 703-834-4273
Fax: 703-787-6613
This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
contents to any other person.
| Message 21
Subject: Re: water, water, everywhere.
From: Arlus Farnsworth
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:43:18 -0700
No, but I intend to look into it promptly!
Andrei Calciu wrote:
>
> Arlus,
>
> are you using an irrigation hookup?
>
> -_______________
> Andrei D. Calciu (VA-4270)
> NEC America, Inc.
> 14040 Park Center Dr.
> Herndon, VA 20171-3227
>
> Voice: 703-834-4273
> Fax: 703-787-6613
>
> This message and any attachment are confidential. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete the
> message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended
> recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the
> contents to any other person.
| Message 22
Subject: Re: Terrorism AN ANSWER TO JIM FROM BRENT (the last)
From: Jim Joyner
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:11:58 -0500
Dear Brent,
It's obvious we have different views of the world, its problems and
solutions. Our views may even be typical of the differences among
Americans. To be honest, most of I say is not meant as fact but as
contention based on my experience -- almost 60 years of it. I suspect my
experience with war and violence is similar to Kris Book's.
If it turns out my view is not correct, well, it won't be the first time,
and I'm OK with it. If you are wrong I hope you will not feel badly toward
me (and others who hold similar views). It's not really who's right or
wrong but what we can learn that counts.
I think Kris is right when he says "it is perfectly clear to me that this
thread can only destroy relations on the aquaponics list". I don't wish to
do that, so I'll not speak on the subject again.
I want you to know, in any event, that I wish you no ill, that I even
appreciate your passion; after all, I think we both love and care for the
same country and people.
Sincerely,
Jim
| Message 23
Subject: Re: Terrorism AN ANSWER TO JIM FROM BRENT thank you
From: "Brent Bingham"
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:52:00 -0700
Thank you for allowing a divergent view to your own.
We can help by sharing what we know with the ever increasing hungry of the
world. I will always share my butter but some prefer guns over butter!
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Joyner"
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: Terrorism AN ANSWER TO JIM FROM BRENT (the last)
> Dear Brent,
>
> It's obvious we have different views of the world, its problems and
> solutions. Our views may even be typical of the differences among
> Americans. To be honest, most of I say is not meant as fact but as
> contention based on my experience -- almost 60 years of it. I suspect my
> experience with war and violence is similar to Kris Book's.
>
> If it turns out my view is not correct, well, it won't be the first time,
> and I'm OK with it. If you are wrong I hope you will not feel badly toward
> me (and others who hold similar views). It's not really who's right or
> wrong but what we can learn that counts.
>
> I think Kris is right when he says "it is perfectly clear to me that this
> thread can only destroy relations on the aquaponics list". I don't wish to
> do that, so I'll not speak on the subject again.
>
> I want you to know, in any event, that I wish you no ill, that I even
> appreciate your passion; after all, I think we both love and care for the
> same country and people.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jim
>
>
>
| Message 24
Subject: Re: Terrorism AN ANSWER TO JIM FROM BRENT (the last)
From: "Lloyd R. Prentice"
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:42:49 -0400
Hello,
Jim Joyner wrote:
> I think Kris is right when he says "it is perfectly clear to me that this
> thread can only destroy relations on the aquaponics list". I don't wish to
> do that, so I'll not speak on the subject again.
Personally, I've found the exchanges -- the disagreements even -- reassuring
and healing. I see our exchanges as a way of reaching out in our shock, anger
and grief. I'm sure that all of us have passed through every possible extreme
emotion this week. I see no harm in diagreements. But I do see great harm when
we lock others out of our hearts. I certainly hope that not a single person on
this list has taken permanent offence at the comments of another.
Thank you all for being here. And thanks very much to those beyond our borders
who've expressed their solidarity. I'm sure we've all been praying today with
our families, with the rest of the nation, and much of the rest of the world.
It's nice to be praying together.
Lloyd R. Prentice
>
>
> I want you to know, in any event, that I wish you no ill, that I even
> appreciate your passion; after all, I think we both love and care for the
> same country and people.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jim
|
