Aquaponics Digest - Mon 10/15/01
Message 1: Re: Blue poly barrels Grow Beds, and then Photosynthetic Bacteria on Mars
from "gutierrez-lagatta"
Message 2: Re: Adriana ref tomatos
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 3: Re: Adrianna ref tomatos
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 4: Re: Pacu and blow hard problem
from "STEVE SPRING"
Message 5: Re: Niche markets
from Mick
Message 6: Re: Niche markets
from "Gene Batten"
Message 7: list
from "Van Jones"
Message 8: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sat 10/13/01
from DAVEINBHAM@aol.com
Message 9: UVI Aquaponics Short Course
from Donald Bailey
Message 10: Re: Perch
from BMac1978
Message 11: Yellow Perch Mail group, was Re: Perch
from S & S Aqua Farm
Message 12: Re: Niche markets
from Mick
Message 13: Re: Niche markets
from Mick
Message 14: comments & questions from a newbie lurker
from "Mark Lum" <>
Message 15: using human waste fertilizer
from Mick
Message 16: Re: using human waste fertilizer
from Mick
Message 17: Re: UP perch
from UPJames@aol.com
Message 18: Re: (no subject)
from UPJames@aol.com
Message 19: Re: Perch
from UPJames@aol.com
Message 20: Re: comments & questions from a newbie lurker
from "Robert Rogers"
Message 21: Re: comments & questions from a newbie lurker
from "Robert Rogers"
Message 22: Re: losing flowers and other greenhouse stuff
from Arlus Farnsworth
Message 23: Re: Pacu and blow hard problem
from pablo obiaga
Message 24: Aquaponics in Canada
from "Southin Farms"
Message 25: Re: comments & questions from a newbie lurker
from "Louis N. Scerbo" <>
Message 26: duckweed
from "bennett"
Message 27: manureing the system
from conrad wilkins
Message 28: Re: Niche markets
from (Bruce Schreiber)
Message 29: Re: manureing the system
from "bennett"
Message 30: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sat 10/13/01
from Birdnest5@aol.com
Message 31: Re: manureing the system
from conrad wilkins
Message 32: tropical fish
from "MävêrìÇK"
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| Message 1 |
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Subject: Re: Blue poly barrels Grow Beds, and then Photosynthetic Bacteria on Mars
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 00:11:14 -0500
Speaking of NASA - we're about 2 hours away from Huntsville, which has
big NASA installations. There is also quite a bit of NASA research
going on at The Univ of Alabma here in Birmingham also. My daughter's
6th grade class will be doing some hydroponic growing experiments in
parallel with NASA's on an upcoming space shuttle. I hope to get
"plugged into the loop" by offering to give the class a field trip to
my greenhouse. The timing is good since, as of today, I have my new
greenhouse up and running Yay! Maybe I will get us some good inside
information on the cutting edge.
> A recent NASA report presents a proposal to harness photosynthetic
bacteria
> to generate essential materials needed during human and robotic
exploration
> on the surface of Mars.
I see the poor Afghans trying to scratch out their meager crops in the
dustbowl of their land and think of how useful aquaponics or
hydroponics could be to them. Of course, those that are still
migratory in their living patterns will neeed to figure out how to add
the growing operation to their sod yurts...Seriously, working out the
transferrability of this technology to a low-tech environment has the
potential of doing an awful lot of good. Let's lead by example.
> Afghan bunkers have declared war on the rest of the world (with the
possible
> aid and abetting of other scarlet henchmen and puppeteers
Ted, please keep up the dialog, man. You make us smile.
Adriana
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| Message 2 |
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Subject: Re: Adriana ref tomatos
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 00:36:27 -0500
As Usual,
Thanks Adrianna, I will look into this website.
YT......Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "gutierrez-lagatta"
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: Adriana ref tomatos
Steve,
This is probably a question for Emmett or one of the tomato people on
the list. It may be "cat facing" which I believe is a nutrient
deficiency. A tremendous tomato resource on the www.gardenweb.com is
Dr. Carolyn Male, who has grown thousands of tomato varieties as part
of publishing an heirloom tomato newlsetter for many years. She posts
over on the Growing Tomatoes forum.
> But, my question is this: 90% of my tomatos are picture perfect.
But some
> otherwise perfect tomatos develop a ...(it is hard to
describe)...hard...to
> use the word "cancerous looking" growth on the bottom.
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| Message 3 |
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Subject: Re: Adrianna ref tomatos
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 00:41:03 -0500
Hi Bennett,
Yes & a very hard ...searching for a word...almost like a "scab".
Thanks, Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "bennett"
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 6:59 AM
Subject: Re: Adrianna ref tomatos
>use the word "cancerous looking" growth on the bottom. The rest of the
>tomato is fine, but the "growth" part is ...(looking for a
>word)...."unappealing" and makes the tomato unsellable.
>
Is it black?
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Subject: Re: Pacu and blow hard problem
From: "STEVE SPRING"
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 00:59:27 -0500
Already thought about this.
I ABSOLUTELY, DEARLY LOVE coming home & feeding these guys. It is such a
treat. I am so addicted to them that it is unreal. With all of the problems
that I had with the Tilapia, the Pacu are so "trouble free"...all they want
to do is eat. They are such voracious eaters and their little "red bellies"
just shine.
I'm supposed to get another 50 in a week or so. These are supposed to be
about 3" in length. They are amost $3/fingerling...BUT, I'M THE ONLY ONE
GROWING THE PACU.
Luv it...Go Pacu, PACKERS and Kang Kong!!!
Later......Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "pablo obiaga"
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: Pacu and blow hard problem
STEVE:
.........................
you wrote:
(No, I haven't completely
>lost my mind. The Pacu are vegetarians and I'm trying to switch their diet
>to fruit instead of commercial flakes.)
......................
Not at all. They are fruit eaters in their natural environment. Its good
you feed them anithing you don't have to buy. In the northern part of the
country, in summer, I've been told they can be seen voraciouslly eating
almost anythig that falls from the docks or the ships, especially grain
cargos. They would eat wheat, maize, soy beans etc. If you have fruit trees
or leftovers you save some bucks. Remember they eat fruit that falls from
trees so they eat fruit that has time passed for human. Perhaps you can get
some from town vegetable markets, and producers' markets. They usually have
lots of waists.
On time I'll get to them. I bett in 1 or 2 years I'll be selling them as
delicatessen.
I guess nowledge and money decides. I'll be getting the Bagres I commented
for 18 dollars/ thousand. I can't refuse to start with such a price. Its
cheaper to do my learning killing with these. I'll only have food, nitrogen
and oxygen to worry about.
Feed us with your progress and get a cat for such accidents man. Kitten
will love you. :)
I'll get one my self. Just in case.
Be well,
Pablo
At 00:16 14/10/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Pablo,
>
>I might add that I have dropped the temp to 60F frequently during major
>water changes and all did fine. (But, I was right there to make sure that
my
>in-tank heater was performing properly. This low temp was only for a few
>minutes until the heater started raising the temp.) This particular time,
it
>was a major fiasco, the water temp was 60F for a couple of days not to
>mention NO CIRCULATION, THEREFORE NO AERATION..(Electrical problem.) The
>Pacu, most of them, did fine. I lost about the same number of Pacu that I
>did Tilapia.
>
>So far, I just love the Pacu which is more than I can say for the Tilapia.
>I just love watching these little buggars eat. You can surely tell that
they
>are members of the Pirannah (sp) family. They just swarm the food. Looks
>like something on the Discovery Channel. I always look forward to feeding
>them. I even have a blender set up in the "farm" so I can make apple food
>for them in addition to their usual flake diet. (No, I haven't completely
>lost my mind. The Pacu are vegetarians and I'm trying to switch their diet
>to fruit instead of commercial flakes.)
>
>Just thought I would throw this in.
>
>Later.......Steve
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bruce Schreiber"
>
>Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 3:01 PM
>Subject: Re: Pacu and blow hard problem
>
>
>Pablo I talked to Steve yesterday and he told me the water temp dropped
>to
> 60 degrees Fahrenheit
>and the pacu did fine
> Bruce
>
>
>
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| Message 5 |
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Subject: Re: Niche markets
From: Mick
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 01:19:31 -0500
>
> Assuming I (we) could get a permit to raise and sell ornamental tilapia,
> about what price per fish could I expect? What size would they have to be?
> How long from hatch to sale?
>
> Best Regards,
> ...Gene
>
______________________________________________________________________
Gene,
What happened in Texas is some tilapia ended up in our rivers and
lakes. I hear two different stories on how this happened. However it
happened, they are such prolific breeders that they crowd out the local
game fish, according to Parks and Wildlife. I obtained a permit for all
types of tilapia to be safe but the permits are only to sell fish as a
food source to restaurants or food markets or the like where there is
little chance that a live tilapia will end up in local waters. Not all
tilapia will survive our winters in the wild, even as mild as our
winters are, but some do.
It could be that the tilapia sold in the pet stores never attain a size
that would threaten local game fish or they may not tolerate waters
cooler than 65 degrees and are thus not a threat as the first winter
cold spell would kill them off. Or it may be that Parks and Wildlife
hasn't spotted the fish in the pet stores. I really am not sure which
is true.
If you like, the next time I go to town, I will get the exact scientific
name of this little tilapia and you can resource it from there. The
ones I saw were three to four inches long and sold from $10 to $15 a
piece.. much more than guppies or mollies or any other easily raisable
ornamental fish. It may also be that these tilapia have different
breeding habits and are not easily raised in the states or in
captivity. I just don't have these answers for you because we decided
to stick with raising fish as a food source, at least for now.
Mick
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| Message 6 |
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Subject: Re: Niche markets
From: "Gene Batten"
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 06:32:06 -0400
Mick,
Yes. Thanks for your offer to get the name of the ornamental tilapia. Do not
go to any trouble, but if it is convenient, I would like to know. The next
time I am in the Raleigh area, I will be sure to check out some local pet
stores and see what is being offered in this area.
Thanks,
...Gene
----------------------------------
---snip---
>
> If you like, the next time I go to town, I will get the exact scientific
> name of this little tilapia and you can resource it from there. The
> ones I saw were three to four inches long and sold from $10 to $15 a
> piece.. much more than guppies or mollies or any other easily raisable
> ornamental fish. It may also be that these tilapia have different
> breeding habits and are not easily raised in the states or in
> captivity. I just don't have these answers for you because we decided
> to stick with raising fish as a food source, at least for now.
>
> Mick
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| Message 7 |
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Subject: list
From: "Van Jones"
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:03:45 -0500
Hi, I've enjoyed the list emensly, however my focus has changed.
Please unsubscribe me until further notice. Thank you.
Van Jones
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| Message 8 |
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sat 10/13/01
From: DAVEINBHAM@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:03:08 EDT
In a message dated 10/14/01 12:18:46 AM Central Daylight Time,
aquaponics-digest-request@townsqr.com writes:
<< So busy with leading an Outreach Center in AL and trying to develop the N.
GA property... However, I plan on taking in the Bryson City conference.
Bob >>
******************************************************************************
**
Bob,
You anywhere near Lookout Mountain Flight Park ? I usta hang glide from
there. Great view from the top of the mountain a quarter mile above the
valley floor.
Regards,
Dave
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| Message 9 |
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Subject: UVI Aquaponics Short Course
From: Donald Bailey
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:26:45 -0400
The UVI Tilapia Aquaculture and Aquaponics Short Course is scheduled for
June 23-29, 2002. The following link will take you to the site with
information on the class and a registration form.
http://rps.uvi.edu/AES/Aquaculture/UVIShortCourse.html
Be sure to follow the "Topics" link to 20 pages of course information.
The 7-day class has been held for 3 years, teaching 51 students from 15
US States and Territories and 13 countries. Students have been school
teachers, extension agents, entrepreneurs, researchers and
aquaculturists. Experienced growers, hobbyists and people with no
previous experience have all attended. Make your plans now to attend.
--
Donald S. Bailey
University of the Virgin Islands
Agriculture Experiment Station
Aquaculture Program
340-692-4038 - phone
340-692-4035 - fax
Visit our site at http://rps.uvi.edu/
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| Message 10 |
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Subject: Re: Perch
From: BMac1978
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:41:35 EDT
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Hi Jim,
Welcome to the site, we have some very informed and experienced people
here. The reason I am writing specifically to you, is not only to welcome
you, but I live in upper, lower Michigan in Mio near the Huron Nat'l Forrest.
I would love to see some systems in action, although I think you are about
6-7 hours away, I would be willing to go that far, especially to Marquette!
My husband and I are also very interested in growing Yellow Perch, so I was
wondering if you find any info. if you could let me know, and we will do the
same for you. Do they give tours at the fish hatchery you work at?
Well, good luck, you're the first Michigan person I have seen on this list,
although I am very new. We are hoping to order our tanks by the end of this
week.
Warmly,
Dawn MacAuley
Mio, MI
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Hi Jim,
Welcome to the site, we have some very informed and experienced people here.
The reason I am writing specifically to you, is not only to welcome you, but I live in
upper, lower Michigan in Mio near the Huron Nat'l Forrest. I would love to see some
systems in action, although I think you are about 6-7 hours away, I would be willing to go that
far, especially to Marquette! My husband and I are also very interested in growing Yellow
Perch, so I was wondering if you find any info. if you could let me know, and we will do the
same for you. Do they give tours at the fish hatchery you work at?
Well, good luck, you're the first Michigan person I have seen on this list, although
I am very new. We are hoping to order our tanks by the end of this week.
Warmly,
Dawn MacAuley
Mio, MI
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| Message 11 |
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Subject: Yellow Perch Mail group, was Re: Perch
From: S & S Aqua Farm
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:26:19 -0500
At 12:41 PM 10/15/2001 EDT, Dawn wrote:
>My husband and I are also very interested in growing Yellow Perch, so I was
>wondering if you find any info. if you could let me know, and we will do the
>same for you. Do they give tours at the fish hatchery you work at?
> Well, good luck, you're the first Michigan person I have seen on this list,
>although I am very new. We are hoping to order our tanks by the end of this
>week.
>
>Warmly,
>Dawn MacAuley
>Mio, MI
Dawn, and others interested in the subject. Here's the information for the
yellow perch site hosted by Laura Tiu at Ohio State. While not a lot of
volume, most of the information is subject-specific, and I'm sure Laura can
help you with other resources. Her contact information is included.
Paula
-----Original Message-----
Hello Fellow Yellow Perch Fans,
I have finally gotten around to doing what I promised I would do at the
Yellow Perch Workshop. I, with the much appreciated technical help of
Duane Rigsby, have organized a yellow perch list serve that I hope will
open up communications between all people interested in yellow perch. Just
follow the directions below to subscribe, and start posting. The list is
digested so that you will recieve messages either once a week or when 5
messages have accumulated. We can adjust this as necessary depending on
the volume of messages. Remember, anyone can post! You can offer advice,
let people know if you have fish for sale, inform others of research plans,
announce workshops, whatever. The list does not accept attachments,
however. If you have any questions or comments, please email me. Thanks
and enjoy!
Laura Tiu
List name : yellowperch
>List address : yellowperch@postoffice.ag.ohio-state.edu
>
>All messages sent to the list address will be forwarded to all subscribers
>of the list.
>
>Q. How does one subscribe to the list?
>A. Send e-mail to: listserver@postoffice.ag.ohio-state.edu
> With the two line message:
>
> subscribe yellowperch
> quit
>
> [The "quit" says to stop processing commands. If you have a
> signature file, the listserver will try to understand it as
> commands and send error messages about each line]
>
>Q. How does one unsubscribe to the list?
>A. Send e-mail to: listserver@postoffice.ag.ohio-state.edu
> With the two line message:
>
> unsubscribe yellowperch
> quit
>
Laura G. Tiu
Aquaculture
Ohio State University
Centers at Piketon
1864 Shyville Road
Piketon, OH 45661-9749
740-289-2071
1-800-297-2072 (in ohio only)
740-289-4591 (fax)
tiu.2@osu.edu
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| Message 12 |
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Subject: Re: Niche markets
From: Mick
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:46:02 -0500
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gene,
Cynotilapia Frontosa is the name of the fish I was talking about. It
is an African Cichlid and is probably a cousin of the fish we raise for
food. The price I remembered was way off. They want $59.95 for the
adult male they have in store. The store owner tells me they are mouth
breeders which makes it easier to raise them.
With my breeding colonies for my mossambicus hybrids, I have to make
sure there is plenty of room as the males are very territorial with
their breeding area. (These pet store fish are probably similiar in
behaviour.) I put 1 male and six females in a 100 gal. tank. Less than
four females and the male will harass/and/or kill them if at least one
of the females isn't ready to mate. More than six females and all the
eggs don't get fertilized.
Don't use gravel in the bottom of the tank. Keep it clean glass or the
males will spend all their time building elaborate nests. Build the
females a hiding place. I used several 1 foot lengths of PVC held
together in a pyramid shape with tie-wraps.
To help designate the breeding area for the males, I added a horseshoe
shaped plastic pot at each end of the aquarium. These pots are made for
window use and have one flat side.
I'm telling you all this so you'll be better able to calculate start-up
costs. I can't quote any source for you on the raising of this type of
fish because I've learned it all thru watching their behaviour and trial
and error. If the pet store cichlids are more gentle in their breeding
habits, then, you're ahead of the game.
If you decide this is something you want to do, let me know and I'll
send you email about how to handle the females when they are holding fry
and how to raise the fry.
It might be a fun project and you could attach a small plant tray in
which you could grow herbs and have indoor aquaponics!
Mick
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| Message 13 |
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Subject: Re: Niche markets
From: Mick
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:15:49 -0500
Gene,
http://members.aol.com/Cichlidfan/ff0498.html
Just found this website. They do have similiar breeding habits to the
tilapia I am raising but they require more time to reach sexual
maturity.
Mick
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| Message 14 |
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Subject: comments & questions from a newbie lurker
From: "Mark Lum" <>
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:41:58 -0700
Hi, all this is the first time I've posted, though I've been reading the
digests for about 5 weeks. I saw that some fellow lurkers stepped from the
shadows and thought it was time for me to do the same.
I think I can speak on behalf of all the other regular lurkers on this list
when I say that I've learned a great deal and very much appreciate the
effort put forth by those who take the time and effort to post regularly.
As for me, my name is Mark Lum and I live in Chambersburg (south-central),
PA. I have no aquaculture set-up at all yet, but I've always been
interested in fish and renewable, sustainable, affordable food sources that
can be produced in a way that is Earth-friendly.
I'll be at the educational seminar series in NC. For anyone that doesn't
have the info on that:
it's a 3-day course sponsored by Aquaculture, Intl in Bryson City, NC
November 6-9, 2001
Info: tel: 828-479-6294, e-mail: cwjohnson@graham.main.nc.usCharles
Johnson, owner of Aquaculture, Intl., is retired from teaching aquaculture
in the NC college system and has an aquaponics system himself (a commercial
venture in watercress, I believe). This course sound like an amazingly good
value for the money! I look forward to meeting a number of you there.
Also there is something going on this weekend in Western NC:
alternative/renewable energy conference:
Oct 19-21, Fletcher, NC
in The Western N. C. Agricultural Center (Exit
9 off Interstate 26, across from Asheville Regional Airport)
Admission: free (I think)
I'll be attending.
Currently I'm on the extremely steep first part of the learning curve, so
I've got a number of questions. I've asked a couple of questions about
unrelated topics, so if you are able to address any of these topics, just
cut and past my question into your reply and start a new thread
appropriately titled. I don't want to feel like I'm reducing the
signal-to-noise of the list.
Okay, here's my questions:
Where are all the archived digests? The S&S site doesn't seem to have any
on it that are recent at all.
Hybrid bluegill were mentioned, these sound like an excellent cool-very warm
water fish! From what I could discern they are an F1 hybrid of the female
green sunfish and the male bluegill, grow quickly, over 2 pounds isn't
uncommon, are omnivorous and very aggressive feeders, can tolerate fairly
low oxygen levels (not as low as tilapia, though), are not skittish, are
happy in shallow water, and are good sportfish. About the only thing that
sounds bad about them is that thier offspring is undesirable, as they don't
"breed true", but even that isn't much of a problem as most hybrids are
males and the offspring will be eaten in large numbers. I'm thinking that
they'd be a good place to start, as winter is approaching here in PA, and
keeping tilapia warm is expensive.
So, where can I buy some of these sunfish/bluegill hybrids?
As for Tilapia, has anyone had experience with the F1 hybrid that Mike Sipe
in Florida sells?
Has anyone raised fathead minnows for sale to bait shops?
Can anyone lend some advice or opinions based on their first-hand experience
with any of the above fish?
What source of tilapia are you all using?
Would anyone like to sell me a small quantity of small fish to experiment
with?
There's been talk of duckweed as food for fish and people. Where do I
source it? Ditto for that Kang-Kong water spinach.
Can anyone recommend some strains (and seed sources) of kale and spinach
that work well in an S&S type system? Kale is high in vitamin C and fish
need vitamin C and the C in the commercial fish food tends to degrade
rapidly over time (short shelf life), so I thought the parts of the kale
that I didn't eat would make good fish food. Thoughts on this?
Human urine was talked about as plant food. What is the nutritional content
of urine? Clearly high in ammonia, as is the waste from any animal that has
only one "waste exit" from it's body, like fish and birds. I'm thinking of
a system that uses the effluent from urinals. This could be very easy to do
in populous third world nations.
Thanks again to those of you who post regularly and have taught all of us so
much. I look forward to reading the digest form of this list when it
arrives each day in my email box.
-Mark
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| Message 15 |
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Subject: using human waste fertilizer
From: Mick
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:26:50 -0500
Mark wrote:
Human urine was talked about as plant food. What is the nutritional
content
of urine? Clearly high in ammonia, as is the waste from any animal that
has
only one "waste exit" from it's body, like fish and birds. I'm
thinking of
a system that uses the effluent from urinals. This could be very easy
to do
in populous third world nations.
_______________________________________________________________________-
Mark,
A couple of things to consider when using animal or human waste as
fertilizer in an aquaponics system:
I've read that it is illegal, at least in the US, to use human waste in
the fertilization/feed of fish meant for human consumption. This is
probably only for fish you would sell. You might want to research this
a bit further.
The other thing that I would take into consideration is the possible
culturing of dangerous pathogens like ecoli. The wet dark layers of
gravel would make a pretty good growing medium for many types of
bacteria. The bacteria we use to help keep the fish water cleaned and
some not so friendly bugs would compete for the same growing area.
I considered using manure from my ponies when we first started this
venture. I'd used manure teas in my outdoor/traditional gardens with
great success. Some very smart folks on this list talked me out of
using manure in my aquaponics system. As it has turned out, I don't
need extra fertilizer for my plants. Maxicrop makes a fertilizer made
from seaweed that I add every once in a while, more for the trace
elements found in seaweed which benefit my fish and my plants.
Just a little food for thought... yeeeww
Mick
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| Message 16 |
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Subject: Re: using human waste fertilizer
From: Mick
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:40:20 -0500
_______________________________________________________________________-
> the fertilization/feed of fish meant for human consumption. This is
> probably only for fish you would sell.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, Mark, I got in a hurry.. the above should read:
the fertilization/food of plants/fish meant for human consumption. This
is probably only for fish/plants that you wish to sell.
Btw, welcome to the list.
Mick
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| Message 17 |
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Subject: Re: UP perch
From: UPJames@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:07:33 EDT
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Hi
I domesticated a wild strain of Brooktrout that were captured from the wild
as very young fish. They had to be kept separated until we had two years of
disease free status. They were very skittish and I learned to keep them in as
dark an environment as possible with minimum handling. The tanks were
darkened and the lights were put on a dimmer switch so as not to startle the
fish when we needed light to work. The first feed was fed by hand to observe
how they were feeding and the rest was fed using a belt feeder over a 24 HR
period. Very few died and none came down with any diseases. I think that by
keeping the stress level as low as possible by darkening the tank (color and
cover) and using a minimum of disruptions they (yellowperch) should do OK.
Jim
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Hi
I domesticated a wild strain of Brooktrout that were captured from the wild as very young
fish. They had to be kept separated until we had two years of disease free status. They were
very skittish and I learned to keep them in as dark an environment as possible with minimum
handling. The tanks were darkened and the lights were put on a dimmer switch so as not to
startle the fish when we needed light to work. The first feed was fed by hand to observe how
they were feeding and the rest was fed using a belt feeder over a 24 HR period. Very few died
and none came down with any diseases. I think that by keeping the stress level as low as
possible by darkening the tank (color and cover) and using a minimum of disruptions they
(yellowperch) should do OK.
Jim
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| Message 18 |
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Subject: Re: (no subject)
From: UPJames@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:08:09 EDT
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Hi
Thanks for the address.
Jim
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Hi
Thanks for the address.
Jim
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| Message 19 |
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Subject: Re: Perch
From: UPJames@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:21:28 EDT
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Hi
When I have a spare moment at work I will send you an address for the
Michigan Fish Farmers. They have several members that raise Yellow Perch, not
with plants, but have a lot of hands on experience with this fish. Also the
similar group in Wisconsin has a lot of members rasing Yellow Perch.
At the hatchery we are open 7 days a week 365 days a year. I am not there 365
days a year although it sometimes feels that way. If you let me know when you
are coming I will be glad to give you a tour.
Good Luck on your system and if you have any problems I would be glad to help
if I can.
Jim
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Hi
When I have a spare moment at work I will send you an address for the Michigan Fish
Farmers. They have several members that raise Yellow Perch, not with plants, but have a lot of
hands on experience with this fish. Also the similar group in Wisconsin has a lot of members
rasing Yellow Perch.
At the hatchery we are open 7 days a week 365 days a year. I am not there 365 days a year
although it sometimes feels that way. If you let me know when you are coming I will be glad to
give you a tour.
Good Luck on your system and if you have any problems I would be glad to help if I can.
Jim
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| Message 20 |
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Subject: Re: comments & questions from a newbie lurker
From: "Robert Rogers"
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:40:41 -0400
Mark wrote;
> So, where can I buy some of these sunfish/bluegill hybrids?
try www.kens-fishfarm.com
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| Message 21 |
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Subject: Re: comments & questions from a newbie lurker
From: "Robert Rogers"
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:51:11 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Lum" <>
Mark; More information about different species of fish can
be found at,
www.fishbase.org/search.cfm
Bob
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| Message 22 |
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Subject: Re: losing flowers and other greenhouse stuff
From: Arlus Farnsworth
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:47:09 -0700
Would rain gutters work?
Mick wrote:
>
> Arlus Farnsworth wrote:
> >
> > I don't know about the zucchini flower drop / non fruit set. Maybe it
> > has to do with the water nutrient level, then again perhaps not.
> > Regardless, you could put in an expansion tray after the main tray to
> > remove additional nutrients...
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Arlus,
>
> Ayep, I'm pacing in anticipation of ordering more plant trays and an
> additional growout tank. My bank account says I can do it later this
> month. I can't wait! You'd think a gardener would have more patience.
>
> Mick
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| Message 23 |
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Subject: Re: Pacu and blow hard problem
From: pablo obiaga
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:03:37 -0300
STEVE:
You should think on breeding them at those prices. There was info on the
list about hormones use to induce reproduction thou that may mean taking
the reproductors out of the acuaponic system. One of the guys that raises
them here told me they can be sexed (don't know at what size) by their
"chest". It appears that male have their chest slitely more like a ship
keel, compared to female that are a little bit rounder. When female "lay"
eggs, these, fall on the mudd or bottom sand. Males perform 3 acts at that
mommet: they fertilize them and burry them making a trail on the sand using
the keel shaped chest and then brooming with their tail to cover. Perhaps
some of the difficulties of reproducing them in captivity may be emullating
the bottom natural substrate.
If so, the substrate should be loose enough to allow that. Also small and
round (it wont harm them and won't weigh much) 1millimeter sand. As to
mudd, in summer with still waters usually can turn to a soft to foot touch
lime over the sand.
Pablo
At 00:59 15/10/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Already thought about this.
>
>I ABSOLUTELY, DEARLY LOVE coming home & feeding these guys. It is such a
>treat. I am so addicted to them that it is unreal. With all of the problems
>that I had with the Tilapia, the Pacu are so "trouble free"...all they want
>to do is eat. They are such voracious eaters and their little "red bellies"
>just shine.
>
>I'm supposed to get another 50 in a week or so. These are supposed to be
>about 3" in length. They are amost $3/fingerling...BUT, I'M THE ONLY ONE
>GROWING THE PACU.
>
>Luv it...Go Pacu, PACKERS and Kang Kong!!!
>
>Later......Steve
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "pablo obiaga"
>
>Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2001 2:50 PM
>Subject: Re: Pacu and blow hard problem
>
>
>STEVE:
>
>.........................
>you wrote:
>(No, I haven't completely
>>lost my mind. The Pacu are vegetarians and I'm trying to switch their diet
>>to fruit instead of commercial flakes.)
>......................
>
>Not at all. They are fruit eaters in their natural environment. Its good
>you feed them anithing you don't have to buy. In the northern part of the
>country, in summer, I've been told they can be seen voraciouslly eating
>almost anythig that falls from the docks or the ships, especially grain
>cargos. They would eat wheat, maize, soy beans etc. If you have fruit trees
>or leftovers you save some bucks. Remember they eat fruit that falls from
>trees so they eat fruit that has time passed for human. Perhaps you can get
>some from town vegetable markets, and producers' markets. They usually have
>lots of waists.
>
>On time I'll get to them. I bett in 1 or 2 years I'll be selling them as
>delicatessen.
>I guess nowledge and money decides. I'll be getting the Bagres I commented
>for 18 dollars/ thousand. I can't refuse to start with such a price. Its
>cheaper to do my learning killing with these. I'll only have food, nitrogen
>and oxygen to worry about.
>
>Feed us with your progress and get a cat for such accidents man. Kitten
>will love you. :)
>I'll get one my self. Just in case.
>Be well,
>Pablo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 00:16 14/10/01 -0500, you wrote:
>>Pablo,
>>
>>I might add that I have dropped the temp to 60F frequently during major
>>water changes and all did fine. (But, I was right there to make sure that
>my
>>in-tank heater was performing properly. This low temp was only for a few
>>minutes until the heater started raising the temp.) This particular time,
>it
>>was a major fiasco, the water temp was 60F for a couple of days not to
>>mention NO CIRCULATION, THEREFORE NO AERATION..(Electrical problem.) The
>>Pacu, most of them, did fine. I lost about the same number of Pacu that I
>>did Tilapia.
>>
>>So far, I just love the Pacu which is more than I can say for the Tilapia.
>>I just love watching these little buggars eat. You can surely tell that
>they
>>are members of the Pirannah (sp) family. They just swarm the food. Looks
>>like something on the Discovery Channel. I always look forward to feeding
>>them. I even have a blender set up in the "farm" so I can make apple food
>>for them in addition to their usual flake diet. (No, I haven't completely
>>lost my mind. The Pacu are vegetarians and I'm trying to switch their diet
>>to fruit instead of commercial flakes.)
>>
>>Just thought I would throw this in.
>>
>>Later.......Steve
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Bruce Schreiber"
>>
>>Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 3:01 PM
>>Subject: Re: Pacu and blow hard problem
>>
>>
>>Pablo I talked to Steve yesterday and he told me the water temp dropped
>>to
>> 60 degrees Fahrenheit
>>and the pacu did fine
>> Bruce
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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| Message 24 |
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Subject: Aquaponics in Canada
From: "Southin Farms"
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:05:31 -0700
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Dear Paula and Ted,
Could you please give me an e-mail address where I may communicate =
directly to you regarding statistics on aquaponics? It is not something =
I wish to give details on the open site at this time.
Thanks for your help.
Virginia Jacobsen
The Southin Farms Ltd.
southin@telus.net
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Dear Paula and Ted,
Could you please give me an e-mail =
address where I=20
may communicate directly to you regarding statistics on aquaponics? It =
is not=20
something I wish to give details on the open site at this =
time.
Thanks for your help.
Virginia Jacobsen
The Southin Farms =
Ltd.
southin@telus.net
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| Message 25 |
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Subject: Re: comments & questions from a newbie lurker
From: "Louis N. Scerbo" <>
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:30:12 -0400
Mark,
I live in North East PA , Stillwater. I would very much like to keep in
contact with you on your progress, on or off list.
I too am only in the planing stages of my project.
I wish I could get to the seminar in NC but as I live alone, my dog
would have no one to care for him.
Please keep in touch,
Lou
Mark Lum wrote:
> Hi, all this is the first time I've posted, though I've been reading
> the digests for about 5 weeks. I saw that some fellow lurkers
> stepped from the shadows and thought it was time for me to do the same.
>
> I think I can speak on behalf of all the other regular lurkers on this
> list when I say that I've learned a great deal and very much
> appreciate the effort put forth by those who take the time and effort
> to post regularly.
>
> As for me, my name is Mark Lum and I live in Chambersburg
> (south-central), PA. I have no aquaculture set-up at all yet, but
> I've always been interested in fish and renewable, sustainable,
> affordable food sources that can be produced in a way that is
> Earth-friendly.
>
> I'll be at the educational seminar series in NC. For anyone that
> doesn't have the info on that:
> it's a 3-day course sponsored by Aquaculture, Intl in Bryson City, NC
> November 6-9, 2001
> Info: tel: 828-479-6294, e-mail: cwjohnson@graham.main.nc.usCharles
> Johnson, owner of Aquaculture, Intl., is retired from teaching
> aquaculture in the NC college system and has an aquaponics system
> himself (a commercial venture in watercress, I believe). This course
> sound like an amazingly good value for the money! I look forward to
> meeting a number of you there.
>
> Also there is something going on this weekend in Western NC:
> alternative/renewable energy conference:
> Oct 19-21, Fletcher, NC
> in The Western N. C. Agricultural Center (Exit
> 9 off Interstate 26, across from Asheville Regional Airport)
> Admission: free (I think)
> I'll be attending.
>
> Currently I'm on the extremely steep first part of the learning curve,
> so I've got a number of questions. I've asked a couple of questions
> about unrelated topics, so if you are able to address any of these
> topics, just cut and past my question into your reply and start a new
> thread appropriately titled. I don't want to feel like I'm reducing
> the signal-to-noise of the list.
>
> Okay, here's my questions:
>
> Where are all the archived digests? The S&S site doesn't seem to have
> any on it that are recent at all.
>
> Hybrid bluegill were mentioned, these sound like an excellent
> cool-very warm water fish! From what I could discern they are an F1
> hybrid of the female green sunfish and the male bluegill, grow
> quickly, over 2 pounds isn't uncommon, are omnivorous and very
> aggressive feeders, can tolerate fairly low oxygen levels (not as low
> as tilapia, though), are not skittish, are happy in shallow water, and
> are good sportfish. About the only thing that sounds bad about them
> is that thier offspring is undesirable, as they don't "breed true",
> but even that isn't much of a problem as most hybrids are males and
> the offspring will be eaten in large numbers. I'm thinking that
> they'd be a good place to start, as winter is approaching here in PA,
> and keeping tilapia warm is expensive.
>
> So, where can I buy some of these sunfish/bluegill hybrids?
>
> As for Tilapia, has anyone had experience with the F1 hybrid that Mike
> Sipe in Florida sells?
>
> Has anyone raised fathead minnows for sale to bait shops?
>
> Can anyone lend some advice or opinions based on their first-hand
> experience with any of the above fish?
>
> What source of tilapia are you all using?
>
> Would anyone like to sell me a small quantity of small fish to
> experiment with?
>
> There's been talk of duckweed as food for fish and people. Where do I
> source it? Ditto for that Kang-Kong water spinach.
>
> Can anyone recommend some strains (and seed sources) of kale and
> spinach that work well in an S&S type system? Kale is high in vitamin
> C and fish need vitamin C and the C in the commercial fish food tends
> to degrade rapidly over time (short shelf life), so I thought the
> parts of the kale that I didn't eat would make good fish food.
> Thoughts on this?
>
> Human urine was talked about as plant food. What is the nutritional
> content of urine? Clearly high in ammonia, as is the waste from any
> animal that has only one "waste exit" from it's body, like fish and
> birds. I'm thinking of a system that uses the effluent from urinals.
> This could be very easy to do in populous third world nations.
>
> Thanks again to those of you who post regularly and have taught all of
> us so much. I look forward to reading the digest form of this list
> when it arrives each day in my email box.
> -Mark
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>
>
>
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| Message 26 |
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Subject: duckweed
From: "bennett"
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:59:15 -0400
Do any of you grow duckweed for fish (or animal) feed?
If so, please tell me about it....
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| Message 27 |
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Subject: manureing the system
From: conrad wilkins
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:36:11 -0500
On the subject of using manure or any type of mamal faeces in
inoculating an aquaponics system.There is another pathogen to worry
about, or rather a class of them, The worm types. That is tape worm ring
worm hook worm and all those lovely bugs. In many third world countries
and also in more developed countries these are a major concern. If you
get one in you you may have it for life. There reproductive cycle
includes the cycle through a mamals body , the eggs are released into
the digestive tract low down so that the cyst covered eggs will pass
undamaged into a water source or the like. There theyll hatch and infect
any thing they can get hold of. Here come the fish! The eggs in the cyst
form are very resilient and may get through the cooking stage Hence
completing a cycle to another body. Man can those tape worms get big.
And they wont kill you as you supply them with there food needs. They
will move into all parts of the body.....
I have to stop here my imagination is too vivid and in that glorious
technicolour.
The other thing on the same subject is to do with the south eastern
states. I read an article recently. Well, briefed through it. It was
about an out break of a pathogen in Florida. I believe it was called
Pfisteria or something very similar. Aparently it started in the early
to mid 80's. There was a release of pig efluent that was in a man made
lake built to retain it. The whole lot was released into a river and
over a road and into the atlantic ocean. The size of the release was the
equivelant to two EXON VALDESE oil spills. Yeh Ok mother nature can take
care of a little spill But WOA thats alotta poop. Apparently one of the
first people to raise the alarm was a court judge who was out in a river
fishing and was seeing thousands of fish dying in front of him. Looking
as though they had eaten dinamite and there bellies exploded from the
inside.
He contacted some federal depts, someone finally checked into it. This
pathogen is clasified a level 3 to give a relevance to that Aids is a 2
and Ebola is a 4. Thats a little unnerving. The research scientist who
was trying to get the info out to the public recieved threatening phone
calls telling her to keep her mouth shut. Meanwhile people were comming
down with all kinds of serious aillments.
This was an article just written and they were saying that it was in
a number of the south eastern states as far up as North Carolina. Do any
of you on the list know about this or can fill in whether it is under
control. Not just by what the spin doctors say.
Hopefully its all a bit of bad journalism..
Concerned Conrad
B.C. Canada.
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| Message 28 |
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Subject: Re: Niche markets
From: (Bruce Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:46:20 -0500 (CDT)
Mick and Gene Frontosas come in several variates they are from lake
Tanganeka the blue Zaire is highest priced make sure that you have
plenty of hiding pipes for the females to hide in or they will get
murdered. In general these fish are slow and docile even seeming stupid
To spawn them they must be 2 year old you must feed them feeders and
crawfish then when a storm front rolls in make a water change of 20%
with cold!!! water that's the big secret with them that only the experts
now about they are slow breeders!
Now the fish swimming loose in texas are Tilapia Bucforty spelling?
they look similar to Fronts however the Bucforty are not mouthbreeders
but are substrate spawners and they are mean bastards be forwarned
gladiator fish
but prolific
Bruce
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| Message 29 |
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Subject: Re: manureing the system
From: "bennett"
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:52:34 -0400
>get one in you you may have it for life. There reproductive cycle
>includes the cycle through a mamals body , the eggs are released into
>the digestive tract low down so that the cyst covered eggs will pass
>undamaged into a water source or the like. There theyll hatch and infect
>any thing they can get hold of. Here come the fish! The eggs in the cyst
>form are very resilient and may get through the cooking stage Hence
>completing a cycle to another body. Man can those tape worms get big.
>
Recently we saw part of a TV show that did "show & tell" about these kinds
of worms.
I have a question, though. Does processing manure in a septic tank kill the
worms/eggs/cysts? Could manure go into a something close akin to a septic
tank, then the water coming out of that tank be used in an otherwise
closed-loop aquaponic set-up?
D.
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| Message 30 |
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Subject: Re: Aquaponics Digest - Sat 10/13/01
From: Birdnest5@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 23:39:47 EDT
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In a message dated 10/15/2001 12:03:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
DAVEINBHAM@aol.com writes:
> You anywhere near Lookout Mountain Flight Park ? I usta hang glide from
>
Dave,
YES! We are at the west end of that highway, (about 5-7 miles from flight
park). Property adjoins Cloudland Canyon State Park. I have stood on the
"launch pad" where you guys jump with your wings on - I could never do that.
(Not after 4 children, anyhow...) In the mid 70's while at UGA I almost went
up in a jump plane to parachute down - but chickened out! In those days it
was hotrods and dirt bikes for me.
By the way, I'm going to the NC conference - got my brochure today from
Charlie Johnson. But I'm going to sail a question out over the list in my
enthusiasm without waiting til next month to hear from the "pros". Question:
I read that you can feed these Tialapia (vegetarian fish) produce leftovers,
cuttings, etc. I have access to hundreds of pounds of produce weekly - culls
and salvage from the State Farmers' Market. Could my commercial feed be
supplemented with such? (This is still humanly edible - we give out hundreds
of pounds of food monthly - only cosmetic blemishes, etc).
Bob
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In a message dated 10/15/2001 12:03:57 PM
Eastern Daylight Time, DAVEINBHAM@aol.com writes:
You anywhere near Lookout Mountain Flight Park ? I usta
hang glide from
there.
Dave,
YES! We are at the west end of that highway, (about 5-7 miles from flight park).
Property adjoins Cloudland Canyon State Park. I have stood on the "launch pad"
where you guys jump with your wings on - I could never do that. (Not after 4 children,
anyhow...) In the mid 70's while at UGA I almost went up in a jump plane to
parachute down - but chickened out! In those days it was hotrods and dirt bikes for me.
By the way, I'm going to the NC conference - got my brochure today from Charlie Johnson.
But I'm going to sail a question out over the list in my enthusiasm without waiting til
next month to hear from the "pros". Question: I read that you can feed these
Tialapia (vegetarian fish) produce leftovers, cuttings, etc. I have access to hundreds of
pounds of produce weekly - culls and salvage from the State Farmers' Market. Could my
commercial feed be supplemented with such? (This is still humanly edible - we give out
hundreds of pounds of food monthly - only cosmetic blemishes, etc).
Bob
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| Message 31 |
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Subject: Re: manureing the system
From: conrad wilkins
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:50:49 -0500
Well that may be. But personaly I wouldt concider the risk worth the effort. As
far as Im concerned Id only put manure such as cow, horse and sheep and such
herbivorous animal manures on any crops that is the part that is eaten eg.
carrots root veg and leaf lettice etc. The manure would also have to be well
rotted. Other manures especialy those of Omnivorous mamals are a definate no no
on anything that is eaten. That is only put it around fruit trees and bushes or
onto a field with cerial crops or corn. Eaven then make sure its well rotted.
To put it into the Aquaponics system would be like putting your fish into
your sewer system and then giving it to some one and say here try this. That of
course is my opinion and as you can see Im very anti.
Im pritty sure that the cysts that suround the eggs can last a very long
time and endure heat, cold, flood and drout. Its like armoured plating. Theres
one type thats found in the flesh of swine that can survive the regular
temperature that most people cook pork at and therefore can find a new suitable
host quiote easily. This one I believe will migrate to places of maximum blood
flow. One of those being the brain. Try getting it out of there!
Where do you live ? are you on the coast?. If you are you could collect
seaweed and use that. Eaven If your a few hours away it would be worth bringing
some home and process it. The seaweed nutrient content is very high. They tend
to have all the trace elements that have been leached out of our farming soils.
I dont think youd need very much to use as a booster.
Anti manuring Conrad
bennett wrote:
> >get one in you you may have it for life. There reproductive cycle
> >includes the cycle through a mamals body , the eggs are released into
> >the digestive tract low down so that the cyst covered eggs will pass
> >undamaged into a water source or the like. There theyll hatch and infect
> >any thing they can get hold of. Here come the fish! The eggs in the cyst
> >form are very resilient and may get through the cooking stage Hence
> >completing a cycle to another body. Man can those tape worms get big.
> >
> Recently we saw part of a TV show that did "show & tell" about these kinds
> of worms.
> I have a question, though. Does processing manure in a septic tank kill the
> worms/eggs/cysts? Could manure go into a something close akin to a septic
> tank, then the water coming out of that tank be used in an otherwise
> closed-loop aquaponic set-up?
> D.
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Subject: tropical fish
From: "MävêrìÇK"
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 21:14:49 -0700 (PDT)
Bruce:-
You mentioned in the reply to gene about some
"BUG".. "I was told that some bug was at work in the
Florida fish farms but they did not specify as to
which one."
i'd like to know a little bit on tropicals, since you
have the experience and are willing to share it.
are the florida guys having problems? i mean what's
goin on with the fish man.
thanks,
jai
Gene I have the experience and the contacts at the
retail and wholesale
levels now is the best time I have ever seen to start
a side line in
tropicals especially since over sea air freight have
become uncertain
.I
was told that some bug was at work in the Florida fish
farms but they
did not specify as to which one. Raise what do good in
your water with
out adjustments as to PH and you will have few
problems.Join your local
Aquarium club so you can have a few guys like me on
hand locally to
walk
you through the steps and to stop you from making
costly mistakes.You
can do it Aquaponicaly
Bruce
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